Saudi Arabia vs Iran
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
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Saudi Arabia vs Iran
The whole Sunni vs Shia thing is warming up nicely. The proxy wars in Syria/Iraq and Yemen may be about to become direct....
Iran minister warns Saudi Arabia after 'battle' comments: Tasnim | Reuters
Iran will hit back at most of Saudi Arabia with the exception of Islam's holiest places if the kingdom does anything "ignorant", Tehran's defense minister was quoted as saying on Sunday after a Saudi prince threatened to move the "battle" to Iran.
"If the Saudis do anything ignorant, we will leave no area untouched except Mecca and Medina," Iranian Defence Minister Hossein Dehghan was quoted by the semi-official Tasnim news agency as saying. "They think they can do something because they have an air force," he added in an apparent reference to Yemen, where Saudi warplanes regularly attack Iran-aligned Houthi forces in control of the capital Sanaa.
Dehghan, speaking to Arabic-language Al-Manar TV, was commenting on remarks by Saudi Deputy Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman, who said on Tuesday any contest for influence between the Sunni Muslim kingdom and the revolutionary Shi'ite theocracy ought to take place "inside Iran, not in Saudi Arabia".
Saudi Arabia and Iran compete for influence in the Middle East and support rival groups in Syria's civil war. Iran denies Saudi accusations that it sends financial and sometimes armed support to groups hostile to Riyadh around the Arab world. In unusually blunt comments in a nationally-televised interview on Tuesday, Prince Mohammed ruled out any dialogue with Iran and pledged to protect his conservative kingdom from what he called Tehran's efforts to dominate the Muslim world.
"We know that we are a main goal for the Iranian regime," he said. "We will not wait until the battle becomes in Saudi Arabia but we will work to have the battle in Iran rather than in Saudi Arabia."
Iran minister warns Saudi Arabia after 'battle' comments: Tasnim | Reuters
Iran will hit back at most of Saudi Arabia with the exception of Islam's holiest places if the kingdom does anything "ignorant", Tehran's defense minister was quoted as saying on Sunday after a Saudi prince threatened to move the "battle" to Iran.
"If the Saudis do anything ignorant, we will leave no area untouched except Mecca and Medina," Iranian Defence Minister Hossein Dehghan was quoted by the semi-official Tasnim news agency as saying. "They think they can do something because they have an air force," he added in an apparent reference to Yemen, where Saudi warplanes regularly attack Iran-aligned Houthi forces in control of the capital Sanaa.
Dehghan, speaking to Arabic-language Al-Manar TV, was commenting on remarks by Saudi Deputy Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman, who said on Tuesday any contest for influence between the Sunni Muslim kingdom and the revolutionary Shi'ite theocracy ought to take place "inside Iran, not in Saudi Arabia".
Saudi Arabia and Iran compete for influence in the Middle East and support rival groups in Syria's civil war. Iran denies Saudi accusations that it sends financial and sometimes armed support to groups hostile to Riyadh around the Arab world. In unusually blunt comments in a nationally-televised interview on Tuesday, Prince Mohammed ruled out any dialogue with Iran and pledged to protect his conservative kingdom from what he called Tehran's efforts to dominate the Muslim world.
"We know that we are a main goal for the Iranian regime," he said. "We will not wait until the battle becomes in Saudi Arabia but we will work to have the battle in Iran rather than in Saudi Arabia."
If I may summarize the story: Saudi Prince talks a load of smack about Iran. Iranian official says they'll bomb Saudi, other than Mecca and Medinah.
Another day of noise and saber rattling in the Persian Gulf. Nothing new.
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ProTip for Air Marshall Nonesuch of Iran:
Right, you'll bomb the desert and a few select port cities. If you'd like some lessons learned, send a telegram to the US Department of Defense and ask about bombing deserts. Ask for any tips, pros and cons form the last 16 years of fun and games. Self Addressed, Self Stamped envelope recommended.
Another day of noise and saber rattling in the Persian Gulf. Nothing new.
-----------------------
ProTip for Air Marshall Nonesuch of Iran:
Right, you'll bomb the desert and a few select port cities. If you'd like some lessons learned, send a telegram to the US Department of Defense and ask about bombing deserts. Ask for any tips, pros and cons form the last 16 years of fun and games. Self Addressed, Self Stamped envelope recommended.
So if each attack the other hopefully both finish the other off and peace may reign in that area.
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Having witnessed Iranian military readiness first hand, the indicator that Iran is preparing for the scale of operation required to attack targets in Saudi Arabia would be very obvious to any outside observer. Any outside observer would not require the breadth of technical ability available to western intelligence agencies (such as satellite intelligence). Unfortunately for Iran, this is one of the pitfalls of basing your military aviation assets alongside your civilian aviation infrastructure. You are able to see the tempo of training that the Iranians maintain, and the state of their jets, quite freely at most regional airports.
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
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Always good to remind oneself whose citizens hijacked planes on 9/11 and were supporting Taliban. Has anything really changed in 16 years ?
You are able to see the tempo of training that the Iranians maintain,
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Having spent a few years in both Iran and Saudi in the aviation business - even involved in training Saudi mechanics I have come to the conclusion that the Iranians would find it relatively easy to overcome the Saudi military. The average Saudi is lazy,utterly selfish and frankly not too bright. Marrying their cousins for generations has done them no good. I watched a team from Germany trying to teach Saudi special forces aircraft assault techniques,it was hysterical - some were unable to climb a ladder due to lack of co- ordination. There were MP5 submachine guns lying all over the ramp,soldiers sleeping while leaning on tires. The German in charge did not say much but was obviously not impressed. I believe a large proportion of the Saudi military is comprised of Pakistani mercenaries - I doubt they would be prepared to sacrifice themselves for Saudi Arabia.
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BCGallagher
I'm not disagreeing with you assessment of the average Saudi (it mirrors many other comments I've heard and makes a mockery of the 'Saudisation' policy of the Government), but for sure the US would never let KSA fall...................and definitely not to Iran.
Arc
I'm not disagreeing with you assessment of the average Saudi (it mirrors many other comments I've heard and makes a mockery of the 'Saudisation' policy of the Government), but for sure the US would never let KSA fall...................and definitely not to Iran.
Arc
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You are absolutely right on that point - the US would not hesitate to step in when required. Saudi would fall apart in hours without American military assistance.My understanding is that there is a very complex command structure - different branches of the military are controlled by different Princes - an added problem is that those from the old Hashemite families are not permitted high rank. A further problem is that there are conflicts between princes whose military rank may be lower than a commander, can override the orders. Any really severe conflict would be an absolute shambles - note what is happening in Yemen.
I don't believe Irish and British diplomats were arranging regular meetings and support facilities overseas with IRA or UVF and providing them with spending money.
racedo, how about we remain on topic: Iran versus Saudi(such as it is). 9-11 has its own threads.
bcgallacher makes a couple of very cogent points; the first about the general lack of professionalism in the Saudi armed forces. The second being that the Saudis have (lucky for them) friends who may keep them from ever being put to the test.
Question for anyone interested: would it be in the interest of the region, and the world in general, for the Persians/Iranians to overcome the Arab dominance of the Holy Cities of Islam? When you consider the large populations of non Arab muslims all over the world (see Indonesia, Iran, Maylasia, etc) perhaps it's time for a change in the custodian of the holy sites.
I am not sure the current Iranian leadership necessarily wants to go there, since that would doubtless attract people to come into Arabia and begin a long series of car bomb attacks, as has been done in Iraq, but I wonder if a few of the hard line Imams and ayatollahs in Iran don't dream about that possible future.
bcgallacher makes a couple of very cogent points; the first about the general lack of professionalism in the Saudi armed forces. The second being that the Saudis have (lucky for them) friends who may keep them from ever being put to the test.
Question for anyone interested: would it be in the interest of the region, and the world in general, for the Persians/Iranians to overcome the Arab dominance of the Holy Cities of Islam? When you consider the large populations of non Arab muslims all over the world (see Indonesia, Iran, Maylasia, etc) perhaps it's time for a change in the custodian of the holy sites.
I am not sure the current Iranian leadership necessarily wants to go there, since that would doubtless attract people to come into Arabia and begin a long series of car bomb attacks, as has been done in Iraq, but I wonder if a few of the hard line Imams and ayatollahs in Iran don't dream about that possible future.
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Personally, I'd advocate everyone in USA/Europe etc stay well out of any such fight between Saudi and Iran. It'd probably escalate to include much of the middle eastern world, and I'd just advocate we stand back and let them have at it until they come to a standstill. It might clear the air, it might rid us of a lot of terrorist trouble and when all's said and done - its none of our business. After it ends I'd say there should be a general agreement to refuse to replace the armaments of whoever is still standing. Remember we in Britain get virtually no oil from the middle east - our oil primarily comes from Norway and Nigeria as well as significant amounts from other non-middle eastern countries - so we would have no interest in the oil outcome.
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Remember we in Britain get virtually no oil from the middle east - our oil primarily comes from Norway and Nigeria as well as significant amounts from other non-middle eastern countries - so we would have no interest in the oil outcome.
If Saudi, Kuwait, UAE, Iraq and Iran were no longer pumping oil then about 35% of the world's oil production capacity would disappear.
So we might have an interest as Brent crude would not be trading at ~$50/barrel!
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UK doesn't have oil supply guarantees!!!
If Saudi were no longer pumping oil, we'd lose about 12% of the worlds oil production capacity.
If Saudi, Kuwait, UAE, Iraq and Iran were no longer pumping oil then about 35% of the world's oil production capacity would disappear.
So we might have an interest as Brent crude would not be trading at ~$50/barrel!
If Saudi, Kuwait, UAE, Iraq and Iran were no longer pumping oil then about 35% of the world's oil production capacity would disappear.
So we might have an interest as Brent crude would not be trading at ~$50/barrel!
PZU - Out of Africa (Retired)
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"perhaps it's time for a change in the custodian of the holy sites."
trouble is most of the World's Moslems are Sunni not Shia - you'd be handing them over to the Ayatollahs and similar who like to dictate religion (similar to the Popes) whereas Sunni is (ideally) only you and your direct relationship with God without ANY intermediaries
trouble is most of the World's Moslems are Sunni not Shia - you'd be handing them over to the Ayatollahs and similar who like to dictate religion (similar to the Popes) whereas Sunni is (ideally) only you and your direct relationship with God without ANY intermediaries
"perhaps it's time for a change in the custodian of the holy sites."
trouble is most of the World's Moslems are Sunni not Shia - you'd be handing them over to the Ayatollahs and similar who like to dictate religion (similar to the Popes) whereas Sunni is (ideally) only you and your direct relationship with God without ANY intermediaries
trouble is most of the World's Moslems are Sunni not Shia - you'd be handing them over to the Ayatollahs and similar who like to dictate religion (similar to the Popes) whereas Sunni is (ideally) only you and your direct relationship with God without ANY intermediaries
If Saudi were no longer pumping oil, we'd lose about 12% of the worlds oil production capacity.
If Saudi, Kuwait, UAE, Iraq and Iran were no longer pumping oil then about 35% of the world's oil production capacity would disappear.
So we might have an interest as Brent crude would not be trading at ~$50/barrel!
If Saudi, Kuwait, UAE, Iraq and Iran were no longer pumping oil then about 35% of the world's oil production capacity would disappear.
So we might have an interest as Brent crude would not be trading at ~$50/barrel!
And London would lose the Billions of £££ that the Gulf states use to buy up UK Govt and UK Media that then turns a blind eye to what they do.