Vampire rips up runway...
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http://motty.hobbyvista.com/Macchis/Macchi-Index.html: Macchi MB326H front cockpit instrument panel: MB-326H Details
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What would have happened if the runway had been required for immediate use after the aircraft took off? Emergency landing? Also, is there seriously not a safety document drawn up for these sort of events? Clearly there was going to be a problem with this type, plus the age of the runway and its lack suitability.....
People slate me on here for wanting this industry wound up, but pictures like this.. videos like this just make me feel.....the airshow season is just starting and we know where its leading to.
People slate me on here for wanting this industry wound up, but pictures like this.. videos like this just make me feel.....the airshow season is just starting and we know where its leading to.
For 'Danny42C' - yes 'half plus 2' sounds right. Had an e-mail stating the CMDR was at 12K so that would have been the turn inbound height. But he was at 2,000 feet over water descending turn into water I guess. And yes the descent was at steady RPM, 250 knots sounds right and very fast.
On previous page this thread 'RetiredBA/BY' enquires about Goblin engine and Vampire types. The quote was from the RAAF Mk.35 & Mk.35A Flight Manual - I would have to check if it was a variant of the T-11 but I guess it was. The RAN had some T-11venses - they were the ones with the instruments in different places along with the dual AH/AIs.
The RAAF manual says the engine is a Goblin Mk35:
On previous page this thread 'RetiredBA/BY' enquires about Goblin engine and Vampire types. The quote was from the RAAF Mk.35 & Mk.35A Flight Manual - I would have to check if it was a variant of the T-11 but I guess it was. The RAN had some T-11venses - they were the ones with the instruments in different places along with the dual AH/AIs.
The RAAF manual says the engine is a Goblin Mk35:
Thanks for that. I asked because my old T11 notes differed from the RAN aircraft.
I was on the last RAF Vampire course at 8 FTS at Swinderby, so perhaps we had the latest impellers on our Goblin mk 3.
Don't remember much of a fuss about resonance.
After years of flying Boeing glass cockpit it's hard to believe we had such truly awful instrument panels and altimeters which might as well have been in Greek!
Thread Starter
What would have happened if the runway had been required for immediate use after the aircraft took off? Emergency landing? Also, is there seriously not a safety document drawn up for these sort of events? Clearly there was going to be a problem with this type, plus the age of the runway and its lack suitability.....
People slate me on here for wanting this industry wound up, but pictures like this.. videos like this just make me feel.....the airshow season is just starting and we know where its leading to.
People slate me on here for wanting this industry wound up, but pictures like this.. videos like this just make me feel.....the airshow season is just starting and we know where its leading to.
SpazSinbad
I instructed on Vamps and Macchis at PCE between '67 -'69. Did a lot of the staff Macchi conversions.
I recall another student night flying fatal, probably '68 Cdt Bill Best IIRC. Flew into the hills on the left turn after take-off on 18. The circuit height was 1200', at night a straight climb to 1200' was require before turning. Suspected that he turned at 200'. Very sad, he had good hands and feet.
The circuit was busy with Vamps and Macchis before Gin Gin, I didn't think it too bad.
Night was worse with just Vamps - they were almost invisible on down wind and finals when trying to workout if it was clear to turn crosswind or base.
Cheers
I instructed on Vamps and Macchis at PCE between '67 -'69. Did a lot of the staff Macchi conversions.
I recall another student night flying fatal, probably '68 Cdt Bill Best IIRC. Flew into the hills on the left turn after take-off on 18. The circuit height was 1200', at night a straight climb to 1200' was require before turning. Suspected that he turned at 200'. Very sad, he had good hands and feet.
The circuit was busy with Vamps and Macchis before Gin Gin, I didn't think it too bad.
Night was worse with just Vamps - they were almost invisible on down wind and finals when trying to workout if it was clear to turn crosswind or base.
Cheers
All of the various Goblin compressor mods resulted in engines which were very noisy, known as "growlers". The noise could be so disconcerting that more than 30% of the fleet were "dual only". Had a front bearing failure in one of the worst growlers - was quite peaceful gliding back to PCE, at least until I was given no3 to land - approach forgot to advise tower of the mayday call!
Punching out of Oakington on a solo IF detail I arrived over Gravely, our relief landing ground, at about 20k and asked for a cloudbreak descent (QGH). I spiralled down with the controller doing the usual heading checks and then he seemed to dry up. I carried on and at about 10k I was told to abort the procedure and return to Oakington.
A mate of mine, and still is, was doing circuit continuation training and had just commenced an overshoot. At that point his trusty Goblin decided to have a major impellor failure and in so doing departed the shaft and dived into the fuselage fuel tank. The response from the fuel tank was as expected so my mate, at about 150 ft. on overshoot had a load of decibels plus a brightly lit rear view mirror.
He wisely decide to leave the aeroplane to its own devices; pulled off the canopy and ejected. His altitude, 150 ft. against a 200ft./90 knots seat was compensated by being in a climb and his speed was OK. He arrived on the runway and was relatively unscathed but his aeroplane, by this time resembling a ball of flame with two wingtips sticking out had decided to carry out a Kamikaze attack on the control tower, which was why my QGH had dried up.
It arrived in the signals square and swamped the tower, fire truck and ambulance with incandescent Avtag. There was a pause whilst the fire crew extinguished the fire on the fire truck and ambulance before they could attend to the scenes of the accident.
My mate, despite the efforts of Huntington hospital was OK and he got his MB tie.
Years later FED went to Gravely to do some helicopter work for the film 'Robbery'. That was the film about the Great Train Robbers of the sixties. The film's hideout was the tower at Gravely and if you follow the Whirlwind helicopter supposedly looking for them you will see a young FED in the cockpit.
Walking around the old signals square I pulled out some old Vampire control wires that had been there all those years.
A mate of mine, and still is, was doing circuit continuation training and had just commenced an overshoot. At that point his trusty Goblin decided to have a major impellor failure and in so doing departed the shaft and dived into the fuselage fuel tank. The response from the fuel tank was as expected so my mate, at about 150 ft. on overshoot had a load of decibels plus a brightly lit rear view mirror.
He wisely decide to leave the aeroplane to its own devices; pulled off the canopy and ejected. His altitude, 150 ft. against a 200ft./90 knots seat was compensated by being in a climb and his speed was OK. He arrived on the runway and was relatively unscathed but his aeroplane, by this time resembling a ball of flame with two wingtips sticking out had decided to carry out a Kamikaze attack on the control tower, which was why my QGH had dried up.
It arrived in the signals square and swamped the tower, fire truck and ambulance with incandescent Avtag. There was a pause whilst the fire crew extinguished the fire on the fire truck and ambulance before they could attend to the scenes of the accident.
My mate, despite the efforts of Huntington hospital was OK and he got his MB tie.
Years later FED went to Gravely to do some helicopter work for the film 'Robbery'. That was the film about the Great Train Robbers of the sixties. The film's hideout was the tower at Gravely and if you follow the Whirlwind helicopter supposedly looking for them you will see a young FED in the cockpit.
Walking around the old signals square I pulled out some old Vampire control wires that had been there all those years.
Last edited by Fareastdriver; 4th May 2017 at 18:17.
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'zzuf' thanks for that detail. Yes I remember BEST - the name - but not details now, I'll look it up - I was a Midshipman under training at Pearce from July to December 1968 on No.67 Pilot Course. We had the RAAF Academy class in our lot who were in the Officers Mess, so I'll guess you knew them, one being Flying Officer Herbert who died in the Canberra crash in Vietnam. Being under training I do not think we were made aware of the 'growlers'. Apart from the speed change from Winjeel to Vampire I found that taxiing was difficult because I had lead feet, even in the Winjeel. :-) Keeping the noise down in the accelerating Goblin seemed easy enough after a few tentative growls on go arounds keeping the nosewheel off the tarmac - bit like rubbing ones stomach and tapping head at same time scenario. 
Mixed circuits were OK, compared to three courses airborne on the three parallel runways at Point Cook, when Pearce instructors were initially under training/conversion. Throw in the first Macchi course No.68 and there was some mayhem initially and then the Macchis went to GinGin.
I was disappointed that our course graduating in December 1968 did not have a large flypast however it was good to POQ back to the east coast. We did have a large instructor (with studs as passengers) 16v16 ACM or something of that order but that is a whole other story for me.
For sure night flying around midnight was a chore being down on the alphabet list. With BEST & HAMMOND in mind we were on the ball I reckon. There is a thread about a potential reunion here: http://www.pprune.org/military-aviat...h-reunion.html
Mixed circuits were OK, compared to three courses airborne on the three parallel runways at Point Cook, when Pearce instructors were initially under training/conversion. Throw in the first Macchi course No.68 and there was some mayhem initially and then the Macchis went to GinGin.
I was disappointed that our course graduating in December 1968 did not have a large flypast however it was good to POQ back to the east coast. We did have a large instructor (with studs as passengers) 16v16 ACM or something of that order but that is a whole other story for me.
"Aircraft struck ground soon after take off 21/11/67 near RAAF Pearce, at Bullsbrook W.A. Crew; CDTAC E.W. Best." http://www.adf-serials.com.au/2a79.htm
Last edited by SpazSinbad; 5th May 2017 at 09:53. Reason: spellin
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On page three this thread is an airfield diagram with 'original' no circling warning over the hills east of the airfield RAAF Pearce. It has been a long time and in my researches I had forgotten a lot of detail - memory jogged by these forums though. As I recall we were not allowed to turn left on runway 18, I guess especially at night after the CDTAC BEST crash. However I do not recall EVER using runway 18 - if only perhaps to sojourn to Jandakot (south of Pearce) for 'night circuits under instruction' there.
Thanks SpazSinbad,
Main studs for me on 67 course were Mike Herbert and Mid Cooper. Flew with a few of the others as well. Was able to attend the ramp ceremony at Richmond for the final repatriation of Mike's remains.
It was a very busy time at PCE, I was regularly flying 60 - 70 hrs per month. QFI for both Macchi and Vampire, staff Macchi conversions and unit TP. Insane, one day 11 sorties for about 9 hrs flying. First flight at around 0900, last at around mid-night.
Main studs for me on 67 course were Mike Herbert and Mid Cooper. Flew with a few of the others as well. Was able to attend the ramp ceremony at Richmond for the final repatriation of Mike's remains.
It was a very busy time at PCE, I was regularly flying 60 - 70 hrs per month. QFI for both Macchi and Vampire, staff Macchi conversions and unit TP. Insane, one day 11 sorties for about 9 hrs flying. First flight at around 0900, last at around mid-night.
it's striking how Mosquito like the T11 nose and canopy profile are from the front.
Again, by wedding a Mosquito night fighter cabin and nose to the basic Vampire, the night fighter was evolved; and, as an extension of the theme, by modifying the night fighter cockpit still further, the Vampire Trainer has been evolved, while a night-fighter Venom has also been produced.
Mid Cooper
From 67 Course photo, Clive Mayo passed away just recently, Vietnam slick and C & C pilot. Andy Perry, slick pilot, awarded Silver Star by the US for Vietnam, and only this week had consideration for a VC turned down.
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Thanks for responses - bin out&about today. Yeah great news for Andy but still unresolved. COOPS has a photo posted on FaceBook from recent Anzac Day up in QLD. Anyone recognise the leather jacketed one on the left?
Roger was CO of HS-817 with Seakings from 1984-86. Photo is also on RAN FAAAA page here:
https://www.faaaa.asn.au/anzac-day-2017-photographs/
https://www.faaaa.asn.au/wp-content/...Day2017Qld.jpg
Roger was CO of HS-817 with Seakings from 1984-86. Photo is also on RAN FAAAA page here:
https://www.faaaa.asn.au/anzac-day-2017-photographs/
https://www.faaaa.asn.au/wp-content/...Day2017Qld.jpg
Last edited by SpazSinbad; 5th May 2017 at 10:00. Reason: Seakings
Bombed up Vampire ?
Spaz - that's a pretty nifty bomb load you got there mate -
Must have been using the RAAF 'Type 0' bomb racks in those days ?
IIRC that particular model allowed for Airburst as well as Nose & Tail fuzing.
LFH .............
Must have been using the RAAF 'Type 0' bomb racks in those days ?
IIRC that particular model allowed for Airburst as well as Nose & Tail fuzing.
LFH .............
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I have no idea. We did not use weapons in our Pearce RAAF training and I do not recall seeing the gyro gunsights although some inoperative ones may have been fitted on some. The RAN FAA had no gunsights when I flew them from 1969 until the end late 1970 when the Vampire variants were replaced by the MACCHI. Rarely did I fly a clean Vampire in the NAVY - drop tanks always fitted but filled only as required - performance took a hit though.
Last edited by SpazSinbad; 7th May 2017 at 11:27. Reason: + grfxs
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Ah, "8 x 25 lb Practice", not 8 x 250 lb. Another mystery solved!
Thanks again, SpazSinbad
Thanks again, SpazSinbad
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Bin Lookin' at OLD material of dubious graphic quality to spy this gem - PEARCE c.1968. NOW attached is a 6 page PDF of graphics from a Vampire T11 Maintenance Manual (everything fixed with a rubber hammer & oily rag) 'bout the control columns & brake pressure whizzygigs.
Last edited by SpazSinbad; 21st May 2017 at 02:32. Reason: 6 page PDF about STICKS & Brake Pressure (under)
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Never too late to make a 4 page PDF from the 'megan' Vampire / Mosquito Evolution FLIGHT 23 Nov 1950 article above:
https://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarch...0-%201989.html
https://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarch...0-%201989.html
Last edited by SpazSinbad; 21st May 2017 at 06:41. Reason: + grfx
"Mildly" Eccentric Stardriver
That old East/West runway was very much disused in the early sixties. Our house was a prefab just to the north of the eastern end. Lovely patch to go mushrooming before breakfast.
SpazSinbad. Thank you for the PDFs. I have been trying to convince people that the first Vampire T11s had a canopy similar to the Mosquito with manual bailout. The trick with the Vampire 5 was to either turn it upside and trim forward but if it was all falling apart it was a case of put your foot on the stick, lose the canopy and unstrap.
The big advantage with the first T11s was that there was stacks of room to stow you bags when you went to the Smoke for a dirty weekend. On mine you had to use the ammo boxes.
The big advantage with the first T11s was that there was stacks of room to stow you bags when you went to the Smoke for a dirty weekend. On mine you had to use the ammo boxes.