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Old 13th May 2017, 18:35   #101 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by blimey View Post
Letter from this morning's Telegraph if I'm allowed to post it:

SIR – It appears that Emmanuel Macron, the new French president, along with some French officials in the EU administration, are determined to make political and financial capital from Brexit.
They might be reminded of the French withdrawal from Nato’s military arm in 1966. This, at a time of difficult relations with the Soviet Union, required US and Canadian forces, and staff from the international headquarters, to leave France in short order and with no compensation for the money invested in military infrastructure. Moreover, much extra money was then needed to resettle the military in other countries.
France remained a political member of Nato, creating waves when it suited her, while benefiting from the security that forward-based American, British and Canadian armed forces provided within the Nato alliance. A free ride: nice if you can get it.
Air Chief Marshal Sir Michael Graydon

Which naturally brings us to President Johnson asking DeGaulle if his order to remove all US troops from French soil included the dead ones in cemeteries from WW1 and WW2.
The French will always be there when they need us...
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Old 13th May 2017, 18:48   #102 (permalink)
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ShotOne, rather more than bail out, more an ejection. I don't know if they benefitted from infrastructure. I think ACEUR HQ buildings were temporary.
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Old 13th May 2017, 19:25   #103 (permalink)
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Utterly piss poor manifesto on Defence from the Labour Party, but I expected nowt less if I'm honest. Right now I cannot think who their shadow ministers are at all......yes my brain is small and tired but if even I don't know....
The national shipbuilding bit is horse bolted door closed but at least its a hint of a policy......
They are also hinting that they will bring in positive recruitment policy. That could be good. I would like to see less public school, more state school in the better jobs.
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Old 13th May 2017, 19:55   #104 (permalink)
 
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Utterly piss poor manifesto on Defence from the Labour Party, but I expected nowt less if I'm honest. Right now I cannot think who their shadow ministers are at all......yes my brain is small and tired but if even I don't know....
The national shipbuilding bit is horse bolted door closed but at least its a hint of a policy......
They are also hinting that they will bring in positive recruitment policy. That could be good. I would like to see less public school, more state school in the better jobs.
I think you're giving them more credit than they have policies. National shipbuilding and positive recruitment aren't policies, more like targeted support for key constituencies and voter demographics. Frankly, when we're as undermanned and stretched as we are, we need the best people we can get, regardless of origin. Anything else represents a risk to operational success, and in the worst case life, in the name of political correctness.

All that said, I doubt we'll see much more in the Tory manifesto. Have you noticed how the Tory campaign is increasingly becoming about Mrs May and less about the party? Just look at their 'battle bus' where her name is plastered all over and 'Conservative' gets a token mention by the door. Much more and it will look more like a personality cult than a political party. I'm dying to see how they squeeze 'strong stable leadership' in to the Defence manifesto.
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Old 13th May 2017, 20:13   #105 (permalink)
 
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I'm dying to see how they squeeze 'strong stable leadership' in to the Defence manifesto.
More horses for the Army?
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Old 13th May 2017, 20:45   #106 (permalink)
 
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The French benefitted hugely from inherited infrastructure investment from the USAF being required to withdraw from France. In 1966, the USAF had several air bases in France - many of which the USAF had built up from scratch for the jet era after the start of the Cold War.

For instance, at Toul-Rosieres AB, the 26 TRW was in the process of converting from the RF-101C to RF-4C and at Laon-Couvron AB the 66 TRW was operating the RF-101C. The 26 TRW relocated to Ramstein AB and the 66 TRW relocated to RAF Upper Heyford.

The French AF then moved F-100s into Toul and the French Army moved into Laon with Pluton tactical nuclear missiles.

Earlier. the French had also caused much nugatory work and expense for the USAF by requiring the relocation of nuclear strike assets out of the county. For instance, in July 1956, the 50 TFW moved into Toul from Hahn AFB, West Germany with the 74 x F-86H. From May 1957, 50 TFW started converting to 75 x F-100D/F with a primary mission of tactical nuclear strike but by December 1959 were relocated back to Hahn AFB !
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Old 13th May 2017, 21:53   #107 (permalink)
 
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Paying the EU off shouldn't be such a problem, 60 years to pay off the WW2 debt and a 100 years for WW1. So a repayment schedule of 70 to 80 years should do.
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Old 13th May 2017, 22:26   #108 (permalink)
 
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I read the letter by ACM Sir Michael Graydon.
Hit, Nail, Head!

We will always be the rosbiffs, island monkeys etc.
They hate us because we always win.
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Old 14th May 2017, 22:23   #109 (permalink)
 
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I would like to see less public school, more state school in the better jobs.
I'd like to see the best person for the job, and if they're from public, or grammar, schools then so be it.
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Old 15th May 2017, 05:15   #110 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by sidevalve View Post
The Labour govt initiated the Nimrod Mk 3 project in 1977. It was cancelled under a Conservative govt in 1986.
The signal sent out by the JTU after each sortie used to end with the following words:
Assessment of operational capability: Nil
Assessment of training capability: Nil.
It was far from being on the cusp of delivery.
Actually put forward and costed by Heath's mob in 1973 (it says that in the Files on UKAD improvements during the 1970s at Kew (RAF wanted the E-3)).
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Old 15th May 2017, 09:48   #111 (permalink)
 
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60 years to pay off the WW2 debt
I was unaware that they had even started to pay off their debt to us for saving their backsides in WW2 !
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Old 15th May 2017, 11:27   #112 (permalink)
 
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TTN

That is us who have been paying the US for the last 60 years. I am unsure if anyone in Europe has been paying...................

Arc
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Old 15th May 2017, 13:17   #113 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by Arclite01 View Post
TTN

That is us who have been paying the US for the last 60 years. I am unsure if anyone in Europe has been paying...................

Arc


Russia still owes the US about USD 100M, is paying in small slices and the payment schedule ends in 2030. Not really a burden.
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Old 15th May 2017, 13:20   #114 (permalink)
 
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I am assuming this is repayments for Lend Lease stuff and direct purchases of materials...........

Arc
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Old 15th May 2017, 18:40   #115 (permalink)
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Funny thing Melchett you nailed it = they are saying the same today, its all about May, other Tories have totally submerged lately.
William- a short story. In the hard faced field I now work in, a young guy (my boss at the time) told me a tale about how he wanted to join the RN as an officer. He was a comprehensive school boy from a very unglamorous northern industrial town. With an accent that would confirm his origin... he was totally rejected as such, but tried to be steered towards tiff. Which he rejected.
So now he's a very senior guy at a young age with the same accent, a young uber talented pro and would truly run rings around many or most of the RN officers I worked with or for.
Wiki up the present guys in charge of all aspects of the military and a clique emerges, a cabal. Think some recognise this and want change, better diversity that reflects us all.
Don't say they cant do it - WW2s Bomber Command intake says differently.
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Old 15th May 2017, 18:59   #116 (permalink)
 
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HS,

You and your boss should have joined a younger service that doesn't have those restrictions.
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Old 15th May 2017, 20:11   #117 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by Hangarshuffle View Post
Wiki up the present guys in charge of all aspects of the military and a clique emerges, a cabal. Think some recognise this and want change, better diversity that reflects us all.
Don't say they cant do it - WW2s Bomber Command intake says differently.
WW2 Bomber Command were expendable.

Eton, Marlborough, Stowe plus others were seen as supposdly providing the officer corp.

Problem with that is by limiting intake you draw from the same shallow gene pool and ignore those who have better ideas because they are not the establishment.

A USCG/USN/USMC recuiter I knew in LA said some of his best recruits were people who had grown up in gang territory. He couldn't recruit direct if they were in gangs but some of the people he recruited were ones who hadn't been drawn in through a mixture of courage / cunning.
He viewed it that if you could survive 5-6 teen years in Gang territory in LA then you had a bit of backbone, couple of years in, USMC especially, then you could survive in any hell hole in the world.
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Old 15th May 2017, 20:26   #118 (permalink)
 
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Great theory, providing you ignore the 91 apprentices that made air rank including Frank Whittle.
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Old 15th May 2017, 20:35   #119 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by engineer(retard) View Post
Great theory, providing you ignore the 91 apprentices that made air rank including Frank Whittle.
Some throaty roars came from Frank's brick shed at lutterworth in the 50's, I once saw a Lancaster take of with its 4 Merlins and a pipe protruding from where the rear turret was. It made rapid climb.
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Old 15th May 2017, 21:16   #120 (permalink)
 
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I'd love to see some evidence for this cabal theory. There was (I think) just one public school fellow on my BFTS course. And how would an "affirmative action" programme for non-public school educated officers actually work anyway?
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