North Korea!
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The Donald might just over-ride any advice and do something dramatic, for good or ill ... to be determined in the aftermath.
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SUPPOSEDLY CONFIRMED re NORTH KOREA
N KOREA " SUPPOSEDLY " considering attack on Guam
IMHO it "probably" is part of the " mine is bigger than yours urination contest
IMHO it "probably" is part of the " mine is bigger than yours urination contest
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North Korea says considering missile strike on Guam - BBC News
North Korea has said it is considering carrying out missile strikes on the US Pacific territory of Guam.
The report in state media, quoting an earlier military statement, came hours after President Donald Trump threatened North Korea with "fire and fury".
The North's official news agency said it was considering a plan to fire medium-to-long-range rockets at Guam, where US strategic bombers are based.
The exchanges mark a sharp rise in rhetoric between the two countries. The UN recently approved further economic sanctions on North Korea, which Pyongyang said were a "violent violation of our sovereignty", warning the US would "pay a price".
On Wednesday, the official KCNA news agency said North Korea was "carefully examining the operational plan for making an enveloping fire at the areas around Guam" using its domestically made medium-to-long-range Hwasong-12 missiles. The news agency reported a military statement issued on Tuesday, which probably came in response to US military drills in Guam.
In a message to the public, the governor of Guam Eddie Baza Calvo said there was currently "no threat" to the island and the Marianas archipelago, but that Guam was "prepared for any eventuality".
North Korea's statement is the latest stage in a heating up of rhetoric and tension. Pyongyang, which has tested nuclear devices five times, launched two intercontinental ballistic missiles (ICBM) in July, claiming it now had the ability to hit the mainland US. On Tuesday, media reports in the US claimed the North had achieved its goal of making a nuclear warhead small enough to fit inside its missiles. While not confirmed, this was seen as one of the last obstacles to North Korea being a fully nuclear armed state.
A report in the Washington Post, citing US intelligence officials, suggested North Korea is developing nuclear weapons capable of hitting the US at a much faster rate than expected.
A Japanese government defence white paper also said the weapons programme had "advanced considerably" and that North Korea possibly now had nuclear weapons.
In response, President Trump warned North Korea to stop threatening the US, saying they would be "met with fire and fury like the world has never seen". However veteran US Senator John McCain was sceptical about Mr Trump's statement, saying he was "not sure that President Trump is ready to act".
'Scary' situation - BBC's Yogita Limaye in Seoul, South Korea
On the streets of Seoul, barely 50km (30 miles) from the border with North Korea, the latest developments have drawn mixed reactions. Kim Seong-su, 62, said he thought Pyongyang was bluffing to preserve its regime and justify its nuclear programme. But others are more concerned. Yeon Eui-sook says she finds the situation scary. "I hope everyone can live in peace. Kim Jong-un keeps doing this and making us worry," she said.
Analysts say the language from Pyongyang always gets more aggressive in August, when the US and South Korea conduct joint military exercises. But this time - with a US president who also uses strong words - the confrontation is getting even fiercer than usual. North Korea had reacted angrily after the fresh sanctions were announced on Saturday by the UN, in an attempt to pressure it into giving up its nuclear ambitions. The sanctions aim to reduce North Korea's export revenues by a third.
KCNA said North Korea would retaliate and make "the US pay a price" for drafting the new measures. It called the sanctions a "violent violation of our sovereignty", the news agency said. China, which is Pyongyang's closest ally, has said it is "100%" committed to enforcing the latest round of sanctions.
Russia and China have previously differed with others on how to handle Pyongyang, but in recent months have joined calls for North Korea to stop its missile tests - while also urging the US and South Korea to halt military drills, and withdraw an anti-missile system from the South.
North Korea has said it is considering carrying out missile strikes on the US Pacific territory of Guam.
The report in state media, quoting an earlier military statement, came hours after President Donald Trump threatened North Korea with "fire and fury".
The North's official news agency said it was considering a plan to fire medium-to-long-range rockets at Guam, where US strategic bombers are based.
The exchanges mark a sharp rise in rhetoric between the two countries. The UN recently approved further economic sanctions on North Korea, which Pyongyang said were a "violent violation of our sovereignty", warning the US would "pay a price".
On Wednesday, the official KCNA news agency said North Korea was "carefully examining the operational plan for making an enveloping fire at the areas around Guam" using its domestically made medium-to-long-range Hwasong-12 missiles. The news agency reported a military statement issued on Tuesday, which probably came in response to US military drills in Guam.
In a message to the public, the governor of Guam Eddie Baza Calvo said there was currently "no threat" to the island and the Marianas archipelago, but that Guam was "prepared for any eventuality".
North Korea's statement is the latest stage in a heating up of rhetoric and tension. Pyongyang, which has tested nuclear devices five times, launched two intercontinental ballistic missiles (ICBM) in July, claiming it now had the ability to hit the mainland US. On Tuesday, media reports in the US claimed the North had achieved its goal of making a nuclear warhead small enough to fit inside its missiles. While not confirmed, this was seen as one of the last obstacles to North Korea being a fully nuclear armed state.
A report in the Washington Post, citing US intelligence officials, suggested North Korea is developing nuclear weapons capable of hitting the US at a much faster rate than expected.
A Japanese government defence white paper also said the weapons programme had "advanced considerably" and that North Korea possibly now had nuclear weapons.
In response, President Trump warned North Korea to stop threatening the US, saying they would be "met with fire and fury like the world has never seen". However veteran US Senator John McCain was sceptical about Mr Trump's statement, saying he was "not sure that President Trump is ready to act".
'Scary' situation - BBC's Yogita Limaye in Seoul, South Korea
On the streets of Seoul, barely 50km (30 miles) from the border with North Korea, the latest developments have drawn mixed reactions. Kim Seong-su, 62, said he thought Pyongyang was bluffing to preserve its regime and justify its nuclear programme. But others are more concerned. Yeon Eui-sook says she finds the situation scary. "I hope everyone can live in peace. Kim Jong-un keeps doing this and making us worry," she said.
Analysts say the language from Pyongyang always gets more aggressive in August, when the US and South Korea conduct joint military exercises. But this time - with a US president who also uses strong words - the confrontation is getting even fiercer than usual. North Korea had reacted angrily after the fresh sanctions were announced on Saturday by the UN, in an attempt to pressure it into giving up its nuclear ambitions. The sanctions aim to reduce North Korea's export revenues by a third.
KCNA said North Korea would retaliate and make "the US pay a price" for drafting the new measures. It called the sanctions a "violent violation of our sovereignty", the news agency said. China, which is Pyongyang's closest ally, has said it is "100%" committed to enforcing the latest round of sanctions.
Russia and China have previously differed with others on how to handle Pyongyang, but in recent months have joined calls for North Korea to stop its missile tests - while also urging the US and South Korea to halt military drills, and withdraw an anti-missile system from the South.
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In case a NK missile is launched towards Guam, the trajectory goes all the way through SK and then through the southern island of Japan. Geographically speaking, SM-3 and Aegis cruisers could be lined up along the trajectory and shoot it down. Not sure THAAD can make it during the missile ascent phase even if it is located near the NK-SK border.
Much harder situation would take place in case that mad hamster would try to shoot at the US continental territory (when/if his stuff is ready for such a trick). The trajectory would go through the Chinese and Russian territories - no business for SM-3, rely on GBI at Alaska only.
Much harder situation would take place in case that mad hamster would try to shoot at the US continental territory (when/if his stuff is ready for such a trick). The trajectory would go through the Chinese and Russian territories - no business for SM-3, rely on GBI at Alaska only.
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"The Donald might override advice and do something dramatic..". So the prospect of nuclear attack on a US city isn't dramatic?? Much as many are taking delight in the difficult situation faced by the US, it is not of The Donald's making. The neighbouring powers (China!) and previous administrations who facilitated the current situation need to take a hard look at themselves
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There's very little gained in attacking NK preemptively.
NK has enough conventional Artillery pointed at Seoul - enough to put a shell in every square foot of the city at a moments notice.
North Korea will become a Nuclear armed state and there is very little the US can credibly do about it.
NK has enough conventional Artillery pointed at Seoul - enough to put a shell in every square foot of the city at a moments notice.
North Korea will become a Nuclear armed state and there is very little the US can credibly do about it.
N4790P
"The Donald might override advice and do something dramatic..". So the prospect of nuclear attack on a US city isn't dramatic?? Much as many are taking delight in the difficult situation faced by the US, it is not of The Donald's making. The neighbouring powers (China!) and previous administrations who facilitated the current situation need to take a hard look at themselves
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North Korea will become a Nuclear armed state and there is very little the US can credibly do about it.
And then it just a matter of time until someone sneezes too close to the button.
Still I guess a million years hence it will be good to give the dinosaurs another run at it.
Whilst it's not ideal that NK is a nuclear state then is it not just another nuclear state. Admittedly the man in charge isn't especially stable.
But surely he knows that if he attacks Guam/Hawaii/continental US then it will likely be the last thing he ever does? Presumably thats deterrence?
Maybe he doesn't care but I'm sure that Chinese/Japanese/South Koreans and everyone else will.
Trump is stuck between a rock and a hard place?
But surely he knows that if he attacks Guam/Hawaii/continental US then it will likely be the last thing he ever does? Presumably thats deterrence?
Maybe he doesn't care but I'm sure that Chinese/Japanese/South Koreans and everyone else will.
Trump is stuck between a rock and a hard place?
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A war on the Korean Peninsula would be a terrible outcome and we hope it won't come to that. But that's far from a worst case scenario from a US perspective!
Re. the rabid dog/stick analogy; years of "leave-nice-doggy-alone" policy can hardly be called a roaring success as it's left us with nuclear missiles pointing at us!
Re. the rabid dog/stick analogy; years of "leave-nice-doggy-alone" policy can hardly be called a roaring success as it's left us with nuclear missiles pointing at us!
Last edited by ShotOne; 9th Aug 2017 at 18:15.
Nuclear weapons have become the 'must have' accessory for any national leader wishing to avoid the blessings of western style democracy. That is surely the lesson taught by Libya and Syria.
NK has them, so the other countries around that state will have to adjust, as there is no affordable military solution.
Most plausible outcome is a South Korean nuclear weapons program, as well as a Japanese military spending surge.
Think those are both undesirable from a Chinese perspective, although the regime there may appreciate tensions as a distraction from domestic issues.
A more creative solution might be to help NK get richer. They would be less inclined to rock the boat if they had a comfortable ride.
NK has them, so the other countries around that state will have to adjust, as there is no affordable military solution.
Most plausible outcome is a South Korean nuclear weapons program, as well as a Japanese military spending surge.
Think those are both undesirable from a Chinese perspective, although the regime there may appreciate tensions as a distraction from domestic issues.
A more creative solution might be to help NK get richer. They would be less inclined to rock the boat if they had a comfortable ride.
A more creative solution might be to help NK get richer
Even in China the local governments cannot steamroller projects through like the old days.
The FatWun can't allow that. They will buy televisions and mobile phones and be able to talk to people over long distances and find out what a shambles their country is. The last thing he wants is for his population to get facts.
Even in China the local governments cannot steamroller projects through like the old days.
Even in China the local governments cannot steamroller projects through like the old days.
They should be very happy to, it would be a lot easier sale to their own people as well as much cheaper than a military confrontation.
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NK LIQUID FUELED MISSILES
I'm sure everyone has seen the clips of a ' medium' range NK missile being launched in a cloud of red smoke. The red smoke is a clue to thde propellant combination bering used. red fuming nitric acid and some form of a mixed amine fuel ( hydrazine ? ) . Similar to that used on the first nuke amed ballistic missile in the US called the Corporal- basically a updated version of the german A4/( V2), and similar to the titan missiles. Fuels ignite on contact ( hypergolic) - Which means very vunerable before launch or in storage. Along with cooling issues for long range. While the NK missiles may not be very accurate- the question becomes how close to guam consists of an ' attack". IMHO- those particular missiles can be very easily stopped even with a near miss by almost any anti missile detonated within a few hundred yards due to required thin tanks and very touchy fuel pumps or pressurization systems- almost any leak or inadvertant mixing of fuel and oxidizer would be sufficient.
break out the popcorn
break out the popcorn
Last edited by CONSO; 10th Aug 2017 at 01:19.
More detail - allegedly - on exactly what the Norks are proposing.
That puts the US in a tricky position.
How do you respond to four missiles fired at Guam, but clearly flagged to splashdown in bracketing fire?
Shoot em down anyway?
What if you miss - how will you look then?
Or respond in kind?
Land a shot or four off the North Korean coast in international waters?
That puts the US in a tricky position.
How do you respond to four missiles fired at Guam, but clearly flagged to splashdown in bracketing fire?
Shoot em down anyway?
What if you miss - how will you look then?
Or respond in kind?
Land a shot or four off the North Korean coast in international waters?