AFPRB
Ascoteer
How do you work that out my friend? Let's say there is a very lucky individual who has done IOT, EFT, MELIN, ME and then an OCU in just 3 years (the last youngster that held with me took nearly 6 to do the same!!). So, they leave the OCU at year 3, they get CR in year 4 and are a Co-Pilot for 4 years until year 8 and then get a Captain's course that takes them to year 9. They then take 4 years to become "senior captains" (which is debatable in that timescale) that takes them to year 13 - that is 10 years after OCU. They joined at 21 and so they need to make age 40 years for AFPS15 and at year 13 they will be 34, so they only have 6 years to go to the EDP.
That's only if they finished an OCU after 3 years that they will have 6 years as a "senior captain", however, with all the holds that young pilots have endured since 2010, then the time to EDP as a "senior captain" is likely to be less than 3 years in all reality. Plus, at that point if they choose to leave they could have £43k tax free and an immediate EDP income of £7k, plus at Service Pension Age (currently age 68) this will increase to £19k index linked. If they choose to stay and are promoted or go PAS then that pension will grow and grow.
It's not that bad a deal if they don't listen to the 'old sweats' like us that had it good. Oh, and by the way it's not the "first flying pay cut" when I joined up in late 89 I missed Flying Trg Pay by just 2 months before it was scrapped (in those days it was £1/day if I recall correctly). Also, I missed out by 3 days of the highest tier on what was known as FRI1 in the late 90s. It's been happening for years and is hardly a new phenomenon. Oh, and while I'm at it my start IOT to end FJ OCU took 4 years and my flying pay started after 2 years of starting flying trg - the guys ahead of me by 2 months got the extra £1/day from the day they started flying trg. As for "years deployed" then in my 28 years I have done more than my fair share of Iraq (x2), Bosnia (x2), Falklands (x10), Afghanistan (x3) and countless time away on overseas/deployed trg, staff visits or stuck in the QRA shed - indeed the first year I was married in the mid 90s I was away for a cumulative 9 months, the following year 8 months and then I wasn't married anymore! So again, this is not a new phenomenon that the younger cadre of aircrew have had to endure. These sorts of FRIs and schemes have been around for many, many, years to help remunerate disrupted lifestyles and to combat the lure away of SQEPs from the Service. Dems the breaks...as they say
Personally, I think they have got it about right, but then I will see none of it like others on here.
Best
LJ
What an incredible way to disenfranchise all your senior captains! Plenty of guys still 10 years from pension but past the 7 year mark.
That's only if they finished an OCU after 3 years that they will have 6 years as a "senior captain", however, with all the holds that young pilots have endured since 2010, then the time to EDP as a "senior captain" is likely to be less than 3 years in all reality. Plus, at that point if they choose to leave they could have £43k tax free and an immediate EDP income of £7k, plus at Service Pension Age (currently age 68) this will increase to £19k index linked. If they choose to stay and are promoted or go PAS then that pension will grow and grow.
It's not that bad a deal if they don't listen to the 'old sweats' like us that had it good. Oh, and by the way it's not the "first flying pay cut" when I joined up in late 89 I missed Flying Trg Pay by just 2 months before it was scrapped (in those days it was £1/day if I recall correctly). Also, I missed out by 3 days of the highest tier on what was known as FRI1 in the late 90s. It's been happening for years and is hardly a new phenomenon. Oh, and while I'm at it my start IOT to end FJ OCU took 4 years and my flying pay started after 2 years of starting flying trg - the guys ahead of me by 2 months got the extra £1/day from the day they started flying trg. As for "years deployed" then in my 28 years I have done more than my fair share of Iraq (x2), Bosnia (x2), Falklands (x10), Afghanistan (x3) and countless time away on overseas/deployed trg, staff visits or stuck in the QRA shed - indeed the first year I was married in the mid 90s I was away for a cumulative 9 months, the following year 8 months and then I wasn't married anymore! So again, this is not a new phenomenon that the younger cadre of aircrew have had to endure. These sorts of FRIs and schemes have been around for many, many, years to help remunerate disrupted lifestyles and to combat the lure away of SQEPs from the Service. Dems the breaks...as they say
Personally, I think they have got it about right, but then I will see none of it like others on here.
Best
LJ
Last edited by Lima Juliet; 29th Mar 2017 at 22:32.
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Many are on options to extend past their 38 point now, (AFPS 15 requirement to offer this) meaning many have over 7 years to their exit date.
Disappointing that the most experienced are not being offered retention money, although you could argue a PA offer is a better and more lucrative deal in the longer term for recruitment, this is as long as further changes are not made to the pension and/or accrual rules.
Personally managed 3 1/2 ME FL tours by year 12, with over 6 years as skipper.
Now on AFPS 15, OTE and considering all options.
One thing to note though, we all pretty much as aircrew got the biggest pay rise in the public sector, including I believe MPs, so peeps cannot deny retention is seriously being looked at.
Disappointing that the most experienced are not being offered retention money, although you could argue a PA offer is a better and more lucrative deal in the longer term for recruitment, this is as long as further changes are not made to the pension and/or accrual rules.
Personally managed 3 1/2 ME FL tours by year 12, with over 6 years as skipper.
Now on AFPS 15, OTE and considering all options.
One thing to note though, we all pretty much as aircrew got the biggest pay rise in the public sector, including I believe MPs, so peeps cannot deny retention is seriously being looked at.
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LJ,
Remember it's age 40 AND 20 years Service to qualify for EDPs. Most people are having to extend past age 40.
If you join at 18 and complete training in 3 years (probably 4 for FJ mates) then you could easily be a CR rotary captain, ME Captain, or on your first FJ tour at 24...with a pension age of 40.
If you joined at 23 as a graduate, then you would likely be in the same position at age 29, but your AFPS15 pension age would be 43 (albeit with an 'option at 39).
I don't think my figures were too far off!
Although most generations suffered cuts, none more so than those who signed up on AFPS75 and were forced onto AFPS15.
@vin I don't think a lot of the younger AFPS75 guys will make it to a position to be offered PAS, as it will be 3 years before their AFPS15 exit point!
Remember it's age 40 AND 20 years Service to qualify for EDPs. Most people are having to extend past age 40.
If you join at 18 and complete training in 3 years (probably 4 for FJ mates) then you could easily be a CR rotary captain, ME Captain, or on your first FJ tour at 24...with a pension age of 40.
If you joined at 23 as a graduate, then you would likely be in the same position at age 29, but your AFPS15 pension age would be 43 (albeit with an 'option at 39).
I don't think my figures were too far off!
Although most generations suffered cuts, none more so than those who signed up on AFPS75 and were forced onto AFPS15.
@vin I don't think a lot of the younger AFPS75 guys will make it to a position to be offered PAS, as it will be 3 years before their AFPS15 exit point!
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LJ,
Remember it's age 40 AND 20 years Service to qualify for EDPs. Most people are having to extend past age 40.
If you join at 18 and complete training in 3 years (probably 4 for FJ mates) then you could easily be a CR rotary captain, ME Captain, or on your first FJ tour at 24...with a pension age of 40.
If you joined at 23 as a graduate, then you would likely be in the same position at age 29, but your AFPS15 pension age would be 43 (albeit with an 'option at 39).
I don't think my figures were too far off!
Although most generations suffered cuts, none more so than those who signed up on AFPS75 and were forced onto AFPS15.
@vin I don't think a lot of the younger AFPS75 guys will make it to a position to be offered PAS, as it will be 3 years before their AFPS15 exit point!
Remember it's age 40 AND 20 years Service to qualify for EDPs. Most people are having to extend past age 40.
If you join at 18 and complete training in 3 years (probably 4 for FJ mates) then you could easily be a CR rotary captain, ME Captain, or on your first FJ tour at 24...with a pension age of 40.
If you joined at 23 as a graduate, then you would likely be in the same position at age 29, but your AFPS15 pension age would be 43 (albeit with an 'option at 39).
I don't think my figures were too far off!
Although most generations suffered cuts, none more so than those who signed up on AFPS75 and were forced onto AFPS15.
@vin I don't think a lot of the younger AFPS75 guys will make it to a position to be offered PAS, as it will be 3 years before their AFPS15 exit point!
Ok matey, although I still find it hard to believe that they are given Captain's courses on a ME aircraft after just 2 years CR in the right hand seat - are things really that bad on multis? Only 7 years ago it was taking on average 5 years to get in the left hand seat and some considered that too early!
Also, don't forget that FJ mates are Captains from starting the OCU!
Also, don't forget that FJ mates are Captains from starting the OCU!
Last edited by Lima Juliet; 29th Mar 2017 at 23:08. Reason: Lefts and rights mixed up!
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Ok matey, although I still find it hard to believe that they are given Captain's courses on a ME aircraft after just 2 years CR in the left hand seat - are things really that bad on multis? Only 7 years ago it was taking on average 5 years to get in the right hand seat and some considered that too early!
Also, don't forget that FJ mates are Captains from starting the OCU!
Also, don't forget that FJ mates are Captains from starting the OCU!
@vin if you took the OTE manning told us your IPP becomes your AFRS15 exit date, I believe (the reason some people didn't sign it). It was certainly a grey area when discussed with them.
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IPP is defined on JPA, mine is still set to 16/38 and all advice from manning has been that your original IPP would be honoured for PA. Other option would be to simply declare your option and thus move your IPP back!
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Interesting, my compadres and I were under the impression this wasn't always going to be the case...will chase up on this, thanks for the heads up.
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Out on a limb...
Can anyone help a brother out with either a copy of the DIN laying out eligibility for the retention bonus at the 7 year point or a quick jist of who qualifies and who doesn't please? TIA!
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Talk to the deskies. Mine informed me last year that any PAS offer would be made based upon my AFPS75 IPP even though I'd taken the OTE.
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Kicked into the long grass I believe until the autumn in the hope that by then everyone will have forgotten about the imminent NHS pay deal so that they'll be more 'content' with their 1%.
Not sure the NHS deal is that special. After a decade of zero or below-inflation pay rises the government has managed to lock-in 3 more years of below-inflation increases. Given the propensity for NHS workers to strike whilst garnering public support this agreement is only a win for HM Treasury.
It does not bode well for the AFPRB and the backdating of pay, charges and pension codes does little to balance the pull vs push factors. Makes a mockery of the first paragraph of the Armed Forces Covernant. I guess ‘binding in every sense’ has a more relaxed meaning these days.
It does not bode well for the AFPRB and the backdating of pay, charges and pension codes does little to balance the pull vs push factors. Makes a mockery of the first paragraph of the Armed Forces Covernant. I guess ‘binding in every sense’ has a more relaxed meaning these days.
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6.5% over 3 years with some workers getting 'as much as 29%' (to quote the BBC website). It may be 'below inflation' but it beats the 1% that the armed forces are likely to get.
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6.5% over 3 years is <2.2% per annum.
Sure a £2000 bonus increase for some low paid NHS, but that's still <Inflation
AND REMEMBER THERE'S AN INCREASE IN NI CONTRIBUTIONS THIS APRIL TOO!!!!!!!! AND AGAIN FOR THE NEXT FEW YEARS!!!!!!
Give with one hand, take away with the other!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Remind me, What was the past MP's pay increase..........???????
Sure a £2000 bonus increase for some low paid NHS, but that's still <Inflation
AND REMEMBER THERE'S AN INCREASE IN NI CONTRIBUTIONS THIS APRIL TOO!!!!!!!! AND AGAIN FOR THE NEXT FEW YEARS!!!!!!
Give with one hand, take away with the other!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Remind me, What was the past MP's pay increase..........???????