Carrier landings Decceleration & Pilots Head
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To answer BEagles question, Arresting Systems on Carriers can be set for specific aircraft types and weight. The RHAG was not adjustable so a much lighter aircraft than the Phantom may feel a bit harsher on the Pilot and in some aircraft, the F5 for example approach end engagements were not permitted. The BAK 12 Arresting System is adjustable but it would generally take an hour to adjust it which is of course not acceptable so it is generally set for the heaviest aircraft. The first couple of Typhoons arrested here were quite fast and the Pilots certainly fealt it. There are some new systems on trial at the moment that will sense the force and apply the appropriate brake pressure to smoothly stop the aircraft.
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Thanks for photos 'MPN11'. A4G Side Number 889 was lost to a cold catapult a few years later with the pilot escaping under water after carrier passed by. 887 still flies today with DRAKEN USA as N144EM. Recent photo:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/eor1/28295842072/
'OK4Wire' said: "...I have no documentation to refer to...". If one navigates to: SpazSinbad A4G | Fleet Air Arm Association of Australia then following directions there, one may download all kinds of information about Naval Aviation for future reference. RAF CRABS should not bother - mainly because one of note here earlier said 'it was all gibberish'. However if directions followed perhaps there will be less of that. 50 years ago 'OK4Wire' featured in a hangar fire. BZ.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/eor1/28295842072/
'OK4Wire' said: "...I have no documentation to refer to...". If one navigates to: SpazSinbad A4G | Fleet Air Arm Association of Australia then following directions there, one may download all kinds of information about Naval Aviation for future reference. RAF CRABS should not bother - mainly because one of note here earlier said 'it was all gibberish'. However if directions followed perhaps there will be less of that. 50 years ago 'OK4Wire' featured in a hangar fire. BZ.
Last edited by SpazSinbad; 14th Mar 2017 at 12:58.
If memory serves: Typical max trap weight for the F-4K (and Bucc, curiously) was around 37,000lb. At that weight the F-4K's 19 units gave 137kts, which equated to around 111kts relative if all was well with the ship. Single engine (half flap) landings were around 8-10kts faster and the ship, if able, tried to help with extra wind over the deck. If not, you might have to reduce your weight further.
Bruise marks from the shoulder straps were the most noticeable physiological effect.
Many wore either a Formfit or the good old Mk1 to reduce neck strain as, with with your head on the headrest, it was almost impossible to watch the ADI attitude during the shot.
Nice pic Spaz...
Bruise marks from the shoulder straps were the most noticeable physiological effect.
Many wore either a Formfit or the good old Mk1 to reduce neck strain as, with with your head on the headrest, it was almost impossible to watch the ADI attitude during the shot.
Nice pic Spaz...
Last edited by Minnie Burner; 14th Mar 2017 at 17:59.
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Nice exchange of photos there, SpazSinbad 
I remember being in Tengah Local, with 2 pairs taking off in trail ... the Hunters went first followed by the A4s. The A4s were airborne first
Coukd it even have been that sortie?
I remember being in Tengah Local, with 2 pairs taking off in trail ... the Hunters went first followed by the A4s. The A4s were airborne first
Coukd it even have been that sortie?
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'MPN11' after just starting at NAS Nowra, after being in the RAAF for fifteen months doing ground school then basic / advanced flying training, it was a shock to hear about the collision. And I now cannot remember the source of that photo. Usually my attempt is to keep those details these days, so it must have been an early addition to the now 12,300 PDF pages maxing out at 4.4Gb to fit on an archive DVD available for download - see above details. Those pages include heaps of info about 'how to deck land' down through the ages with a bunch of stuff I had no idea about in that prehistoric information age.
'MinnieBurner' said above: "...Bruise marks from the shoulder straps were the most noticeable physiological effect...." That was my permanent state - I was strapped in as tight as possible at all times (especially in the Macchi MB326H which had a forward lean in the seat but only a shore based trainer jet). Once on advice from a more experienced but relative peer, I put my A4G seat full down for the catapult shot so that a good view of the instrument panel was obtained (for impending night cat shots). Usually I flew at all times with seat as high as it could go. BIG MISTAKE - even on night shots I launched with the seat full up however the ABBAJABBA (artificial horizon) was easily visible - it was a great bit of kit.
Regarding helmet effects during arrest onboard - not noticeable in the horrendous
- but very welcome stopping forces. After that first one - no problemo.
'MinnieBurner' said above: "...Bruise marks from the shoulder straps were the most noticeable physiological effect...." That was my permanent state - I was strapped in as tight as possible at all times (especially in the Macchi MB326H which had a forward lean in the seat but only a shore based trainer jet). Once on advice from a more experienced but relative peer, I put my A4G seat full down for the catapult shot so that a good view of the instrument panel was obtained (for impending night cat shots). Usually I flew at all times with seat as high as it could go. BIG MISTAKE - even on night shots I launched with the seat full up however the ABBAJABBA (artificial horizon) was easily visible - it was a great bit of kit.
Regarding helmet effects during arrest onboard - not noticeable in the horrendous
- but very welcome stopping forces. After that first one - no problemo.
Last edited by SpazSinbad; 14th Mar 2017 at 20:50.
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F4 landing on Ark Royal
Carrier landings Deacceleration approach at 160-180Knots ? or slower
Short Distance from arrestor to stop 100 metres ???
Questions
Approach speed ?
Deacceleration Distance ?
Forces on Deacceleration ?
What happens to the pilots head with a Heavy Helmet on is it restrained does it dip forward and down or can neck muscles control or restrain it ?????
Short Distance from arrestor to stop 100 metres ???
Questions
Approach speed ?
Deacceleration Distance ?
Forces on Deacceleration ?
What happens to the pilots head with a Heavy Helmet on is it restrained does it dip forward and down or can neck muscles control or restrain it ?????
Approach speed about 132 kts.
Speed over round down 102 kts relative
250' of roll out progressively increasing deceleration.
No significant head problems since it was all anticipated.
Occasional marks from shoulder straps.
Good fun
Last edited by Senior Pilot; 14th Mar 2017 at 23:06. Reason: Quote insert
Ok3W here. Sinbad, my memory is a 97 ft stroke with another 8 feet for the deceleration spike. Total of 107 ft. I endured just one warshot at 6g and about 19500 lb. It was requested to functionally check a new nose-mechanical fuse for Mk 82's. The airplane soared off the cat, but I greyed out, and the fuses worked.
Unlike others of the class the cat track was never moved and was limited by the forward lift well.
I always kept my seat as high as possible, but could still see the Abberjabber on the cat ride. First move after flaps up was to release the harness lock, which stayed loose until downwind.
One of my colleagues forgot to relock the harness, and the arrest caused him to smash the visor assembly on the gunsight. No one knows the decel G, but if you zeroed the g meter, it allegedly read 4.5 at the end of the pullout.
Ok3W (the hangar fire escapee)
Unlike others of the class the cat track was never moved and was limited by the forward lift well.
I always kept my seat as high as possible, but could still see the Abberjabber on the cat ride. First move after flaps up was to release the harness lock, which stayed loose until downwind.
One of my colleagues forgot to relock the harness, and the arrest caused him to smash the visor assembly on the gunsight. No one knows the decel G, but if you zeroed the g meter, it allegedly read 4.5 at the end of the pullout.
Ok3W (the hangar fire escapee)
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'Three Wire' many appy polly loggies. Thought you may have changed your LogOn. So WHOis the other chap? Dunno. Notice how the date was comfumbled? Just for disfusion.
I have a few quotes via e-mail about the damn catapult length MELBOURNE - you actually feature in the 4.4Gb PDF about this - in the history of catapulting and these mysteries in the 889 loss section of the A4G section.
I'll bet we refer to the same chap hitting the gunsight (but on different occasions of course). We three were together MELBOURNE late 1971 - no? Yeah again BZ on dat fire.
I have a few quotes via e-mail about the damn catapult length MELBOURNE - you actually feature in the 4.4Gb PDF about this - in the history of catapulting and these mysteries in the 889 loss section of the A4G section.
I'll bet we refer to the same chap hitting the gunsight (but on different occasions of course). We three were together MELBOURNE late 1971 - no? Yeah again BZ on dat fire.
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My experience is with USN A-4s and classic F-18s. The subjective deceleration upon trapping is certainly robust, but not severe. Perhaps because you know exactly when it's coming. But it is very important to lock the harness prior to trapping. I too often learn the hard way and I only failed to lock the harness once. I flew before the introduction of the Joint Helmet Mounted Cuing System (JHMCS) which adds considerable weight to the helmet, so I don't know what that extra weight does to the experience. But looking at YouTube videos of modern Hornets trapping with the pilot wearing JHMCS (LINK), it appears very similar to my memory of my experience. Don't know how much heavier the F-35's helmet system is, but I would venture the trapping sensation is very similar. I could not find a cockpit view video of an F-35 trap.
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'Megan' Doan get me started.... 
NOW watch the headless chook one armed paper hangar - especially denouement....
THIS is a REAL HEADless CHOOK without enough flight controls....
ROCK STEADY? Supa Etendard
NOW watch the headless chook one armed paper hangar - especially denouement....
THIS is a REAL HEADless CHOOK without enough flight controls....
ROCK STEADY? Supa Etendard
Last edited by SpazSinbad; 15th Mar 2017 at 14:14. Reason: add chooks
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Oh, sh!t, Spaz ... now I've got to watch all those!!
Anyway, the second cockpit video has enough Instruction Leaflets to help him!
Anyway, the second cockpit video has enough Instruction Leaflets to help him!
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About a lifetime ago -73 or 74 - did the loads work on Jaguar arrestor hook trials at Boscombe with the RHAG there IIRC the max design deccel was 1g at 200kts The hook was about 25 x 25mm solid steel We looked at a Phantom also on A squadron it's hook was about 125 x 125mm but was hollow Designed for 4g routine arrests! We were unpopular with Boscombe as we wrote off two wires on the RHAG - inner core showing on one and 75mm kink in 2nd - oops Tough life these cables have
A Crab's View!
No numbers, but, as a Crab on exchange with the USN in 79, my first carrier landing was in an A-4M on Lexington - a "small" carrier by US standards!!
When I caught the wire (OK 3, naturally!!), both my hands left the throttle and stick and went forward as a result of the deceleration. My kneeboard also went forward and rotated around my knee onto my shin. Having been indoctrinated in the need to select full power on landing, I eventually got my left hand back to the throttle and selected air-brake in and full power. I think all that happened shortly after I had come to a stop. The boat simply called "It's OK - we've got you - you can throttle back". So I did!!
It got better (daytime only!!) but the arresting deceleration bears no resemblance to an arrested landing at an airfield. It is way beyond what you could imagine after a land-based engagement.
As I recall, the A-7 was less stressful - but that might have been a result of some limited experience rather than reality.
My last engagement was in the back of a "heavy" F-14 (Bomcat) on Nimitz - not as violent as a Scooter on Lex, but still enough to freeze the brain!!
As to what my head did - I have no idea, but it's still where it should be and apart from my brain going stupid for a bit, I don't think there was any long-lasting effect - although others might have a different opinion!!
Great fun though - better than a boring landing on a 9000 ft strip of concrete.
Too old now, but I would love to do it all over again...............!!:
When I caught the wire (OK 3, naturally!!), both my hands left the throttle and stick and went forward as a result of the deceleration. My kneeboard also went forward and rotated around my knee onto my shin. Having been indoctrinated in the need to select full power on landing, I eventually got my left hand back to the throttle and selected air-brake in and full power. I think all that happened shortly after I had come to a stop. The boat simply called "It's OK - we've got you - you can throttle back". So I did!!
It got better (daytime only!!) but the arresting deceleration bears no resemblance to an arrested landing at an airfield. It is way beyond what you could imagine after a land-based engagement.
As I recall, the A-7 was less stressful - but that might have been a result of some limited experience rather than reality.
My last engagement was in the back of a "heavy" F-14 (Bomcat) on Nimitz - not as violent as a Scooter on Lex, but still enough to freeze the brain!!
As to what my head did - I have no idea, but it's still where it should be and apart from my brain going stupid for a bit, I don't think there was any long-lasting effect - although others might have a different opinion!!
Great fun though - better than a boring landing on a 9000 ft strip of concrete.
Too old now, but I would love to do it all over again...............!!:
Last edited by ex-fast-jets; 17th Mar 2017 at 20:08.
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Congrats 'BomberH' you would have liked the MELBOURNE - a tad smaller than LEXINGTON (I presume you were Carrier Qualifying?). You have described my initial mind state after my first ever onboard arrest very well:
"...apart from my brain going stupid for a bit..."
One A4G pilot (again - not me Chief - I just collect stories, I never did anything rong) during his first catapult (this time apparently because of operational necessity he did not arrest first but subsequently) DID LEAVE the CATAPULT HAND GRIP in the UP POSITION whilst NOT applying FULL Throttle FRICTION!
He had no hope of keeping the throttle at full during that amazing stroke - luckily it is of short duration whilst the first cat for everyone has extra juice (on top of the light max arrested launch weight). His power went to idle position (but not RPM - winding down) but back to FULL pronto. Bystanding Goofers commented upon the sink off the bow (usually that firstie just leapt of the cat track). Said sprog 'fessed up during debrief with sighs of relief all round for good outcome. Gotta luv the A-4 engine auto acceleration from a reasonable start RPM (whereas the Vampire was utterly hopeless).