Did you ever have a "moment" when flying
Two very close near collisions in 3 days. First was on a Wednesday with a Harrier in LFA 4, I estimated the distance at 10 metres. I spoke to the Harrier pilot after landing, he hadn't even seen our aircraft. The second, on a Friday when I was nearly rammed by my student in a tail-chase. Again, about 10m and again, he hadn't seen me. It made me wonder how many near collisions have occurred with no-one realising.
I drank a lot of beer that happy hour!
I drank a lot of beer that happy hour!
PN,
I cannot confirm the Hoon story but it could well stand for any of the various ministers we have had the 'pleasure' to carry in the Hercules. My exception to these was Linda Chalker as I have mentioned on the Hercules thread.
I cannot confirm the Hoon story but it could well stand for any of the various ministers we have had the 'pleasure' to carry in the Hercules. My exception to these was Linda Chalker as I have mentioned on the Hercules thread.
Then there was the Wessex pilot who had a very quick moment with a Harrier in cloud...where the tail wheel of the Wessex and the tail of the Harrier made contact. Two of the luckiest guys on Earth!
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Though not military, has anyone seen the air collision reported on the latest AAIB report (March)? Two light aircraft failed to see each other until they actually hit. The tyre of one was damaged by putting a crease across the upper surface of the others wing while the propeller tips of one of the aircraft were nicked. Otherwise no damage at all, and both landed safely. Hard to see how they could have got closer and survived.
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..."You have Nothing to Lose but your Chains"....
...
PN, Always a Sapper, ancientaviator62, SASless, and topgas,
This is the first time I've heard this particular story, and can well see the point of it (no pun intended). It was the medieval chainmail idea brought up to date - what was the size of the chain, and was it effective ? We had armour plate behind us (Vengeance, Spitfire, Hurricane and P-47 (?), but none below - and were all too conscious of the fact,as we often took small round hits from below in the Vengeance.
This seems an abominately uncomfortable solution to the problem ! Surely you would put the chains out of sight underneath a thick cushion ? The "K" pilot dinghies we sat on when flying over water were bad enough, as the metal inflation bottle was packed on top where it inflicted maximum discomfort on a (male) wearer. As the parachute leg straps were just long enough to go through both the dinghy and the parachute seat cushion openings, it was possible to get relief that way, but you were wobbling about on top rather unsteadily.
The obvious answer was a 3/8 armoured steel plate below the seat, but I don't think one was ever designed, Pity.
Danny.
PN, Always a Sapper, ancientaviator62, SASless, and topgas,
This is the first time I've heard this particular story, and can well see the point of it (no pun intended). It was the medieval chainmail idea brought up to date - what was the size of the chain, and was it effective ? We had armour plate behind us (Vengeance, Spitfire, Hurricane and P-47 (?), but none below - and were all too conscious of the fact,as we often took small round hits from below in the Vengeance.
This seems an abominately uncomfortable solution to the problem ! Surely you would put the chains out of sight underneath a thick cushion ? The "K" pilot dinghies we sat on when flying over water were bad enough, as the metal inflation bottle was packed on top where it inflicted maximum discomfort on a (male) wearer. As the parachute leg straps were just long enough to go through both the dinghy and the parachute seat cushion openings, it was possible to get relief that way, but you were wobbling about on top rather unsteadily.
The obvious answer was a 3/8 armoured steel plate below the seat, but I don't think one was ever designed, Pity.
Danny.
Then there was the Wessex pilot who had a very quick moment with a Harrier in cloud...where the tail wheel of the Wessex and the tail of the Harrier made contact. Two of the luckiest guys on Earth!
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Danny, don't know, do know one of our instructors said he used a battle bowler
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PN,
Not a bad idea, but it would be uncomfortable (dome up) or .you'd be unstable (dome down). Now if you could get it under the seat .....
We reckoned that there was a good chance of the tightly folded silk in our parachute packs stopping a small arms round.
Nobody got shot in the bum, anyway.
Danny.
Not a bad idea, but it would be uncomfortable (dome up) or .you'd be unstable (dome down). Now if you could get it under the seat .....
We reckoned that there was a good chance of the tightly folded silk in our parachute packs stopping a small arms round.
Nobody got shot in the bum, anyway.
Danny.
"Mildly" Eccentric Stardriver
Wessex in Aden in '67 had an piece of armour plating below the Captain's seat. If you were flying as co-pilot you had a choice of wear your flak-jacket or sit on it.
Danny,
the chains were the a/c standard 10000lb tie down chains. My previous reply was less than precise. They were laid on the seat pan usually and the cushions were placed on top. It was hope that anything that got through the chains would be further retarded by the thick uncomfortable cushion.
For a long time it was the only 'protection' we had. When 'flak' vests became available you then had the choice of wearing it or sitting on it a la the chains.
Or you could use the chains and the vest.
the chains were the a/c standard 10000lb tie down chains. My previous reply was less than precise. They were laid on the seat pan usually and the cushions were placed on top. It was hope that anything that got through the chains would be further retarded by the thick uncomfortable cushion.
For a long time it was the only 'protection' we had. When 'flak' vests became available you then had the choice of wearing it or sitting on it a la the chains.
Or you could use the chains and the vest.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
AA, I thought it was quite robust chain, for the uninitiated can you say what sort of size the links were?
For the purists, did you recalculate weight and balance or use TLAR?
For the purists, did you recalculate weight and balance or use TLAR?
PN,
I do not have a 'souvenir' chain from my time on the Hercules but a diminished memory suggests the links may have been approx two inches long. But I am happy to be corrected. We did not adjust the W and B for the redistribution of said chains. When they were used for tying down cargo the redistribution of the chains was not taken into account as the C of G tolerances of the mighty Hercules were more than sufficient to cope with such a small change.
We also had 5000lb chains on the a/c and there was a school of thought that with the links being smaller they might be a better protective bet !
I do not have a 'souvenir' chain from my time on the Hercules but a diminished memory suggests the links may have been approx two inches long. But I am happy to be corrected. We did not adjust the W and B for the redistribution of said chains. When they were used for tying down cargo the redistribution of the chains was not taken into account as the C of G tolerances of the mighty Hercules were more than sufficient to cope with such a small change.
We also had 5000lb chains on the a/c and there was a school of thought that with the links being smaller they might be a better protective bet !
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We reckoned that there was a good chance of the tightly folded silk in our parachute packs stopping a small arms round.
see
https://www.theguardian.com/artandde...oyal-armouries
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One of my 'moments':
Instructing on Wessex, we were conducting a low level navex to the South of Shawbury. We had crossed into a neighbouring LFA and, at that time, had to climb to 250 ft agl. This stupidly put us firmly into fast jet territory.
Everything was going smoothly, and I was relaxed in the LHS. I suddenly caught a movement in my right peripheral vision. I looked right, and all I could see was wall-to-wall Harrier. It went abut 5 ft over the top of us, and I heard and felt it.
A split second later I heard a machine-gun sound and felt sudden vibration. My student (D..... W.....) had dumped the collective lever and pulled full aft cyclic. He was hitting the droop stops! I immediately took control, gingerly exercising the controls to assess whether we still had a tail rotor. We had and, after DW had composed himself, we carried on with the sortie.
Instructing on Wessex, we were conducting a low level navex to the South of Shawbury. We had crossed into a neighbouring LFA and, at that time, had to climb to 250 ft agl. This stupidly put us firmly into fast jet territory.
Everything was going smoothly, and I was relaxed in the LHS. I suddenly caught a movement in my right peripheral vision. I looked right, and all I could see was wall-to-wall Harrier. It went abut 5 ft over the top of us, and I heard and felt it.
A split second later I heard a machine-gun sound and felt sudden vibration. My student (D..... W.....) had dumped the collective lever and pulled full aft cyclic. He was hitting the droop stops! I immediately took control, gingerly exercising the controls to assess whether we still had a tail rotor. We had and, after DW had composed himself, we carried on with the sortie.
"Mildly" Eccentric Stardriver
Helicopter/FJ interaction. Two Wessex, and a Hunter trying to catch them out. Wessex decide to hide behind a hedge. This worked well, until a Pawnee crop-sprayer decided to take a look at us. Pawnee coming up on the starboard side, the opposite side of the hedge. Hunter approaching from three o'clock. No common frequency. I had visions of the Hunter hitting the Pawnee, and the wreckage falling on two rotors-running Wessex. Luckily the Hunter pilot saw the Pawnee at the last moment, and avoided him. We met a very white-faced Hunter pilot in the crewroom later.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Nutty, I thought he was wearing it, just he was hit above the jacket in the jugular
standard 10000lb tie down chains.
laid on the seat pan
did you recalculate weight and balance?
Surprised you could get the thing to rotate on take-off
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PN.
The TV programme said he wasn't, as does the Guardian article
However it was tenuous to say it would have protected him, she might have survived though.
The TV programme said he wasn't, as does the Guardian article
At the time of the assassination, at near point-blank range by a teenage gunman, described later as "the shot heard around the world", it was reported that Franz Ferdinand owned but was not wearing body armour.
He fired twice into the car, hitting Ferdinand in the neck and Sophie in the abdomen. Both died within the hour.
oxenos,
I assume your post is more than a little tongue in cheek ! But for those who may take it at face value the numbers refer to the nominal strength of the chains not their weight !
I assume your post is more than a little tongue in cheek ! But for those who may take it at face value the numbers refer to the nominal strength of the chains not their weight !