Ealing Council propose closure of RAF Northolt
Guest
Posts: n/a
Germany manages with 11 - we probably have over 40
Think what would happen if the UK were attacked, what contribution could Germany make. Then think of the opposite situation in terms of allies coming to the aid of the UK.
Please don't mention the UN, or even NATO, in todays world you don't even know who will be up for helping out.
We should be maintaining at least a decent defensive state for those wars yet to be fought. That means keeping, supporting and upgrading appropriately placed bases.
Imagegear
Originally Posted by Hangarshuffle
Why cant the RAF simply randomly deploy more aircraft to Northolt more often, and publicise that as well? "Product placement" - is it called that? If its a turf war, and the RAF wants to keep its real estate then it has to surely populate it (with people and aircraft or alternate air defences/assets.
Regular Typhoon detatchment as per the Olympics would do quite nicely thank you, with a good few QRA scrambles thrown in for good measure.....
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: London
Posts: 7,072
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"Germany simply does not have the political, geographic and military conditions of the UK"
You are of course correct - they have a stable govt, a budget surplus, a higher standard of living
When it comes to aircraft they have more Tornados than we have and almost the same number of Typhoons
Their Army has +60,000 men and +400 MBT's - ours has 84000 men and 227 MBT's
Our navy is bigger and better - more of everything and SSN's and SSBN's
I'd still say looking at the numbers that we have a far larger RAF estate than we'd have if we started from scratch
You are of course correct - they have a stable govt, a budget surplus, a higher standard of living
When it comes to aircraft they have more Tornados than we have and almost the same number of Typhoons
Their Army has +60,000 men and +400 MBT's - ours has 84000 men and 227 MBT's
Our navy is bigger and better - more of everything and SSN's and SSBN's
I'd still say looking at the numbers that we have a far larger RAF estate than we'd have if we started from scratch
HH, why don’t you try reading instead of quoting fluffy political garbage. So I asked you and you either didn’t want to answer or you have never piloted or Air Traffic’d a military aircraft into the centre of London? my guess is the latter. Begs the question why you want to comment on Military Aviation. A forum for the professionals who fly military hardware. Also for the backroom boys and girls who support the flying etc. Hey I admit I don’t fly for the military anymore but I did for 30 years and continue to fly today on the North Sea.
I bow to your vast experience of living on the M40 albeit, who actually gives a ***t and to your experience of the choo choo train journeys into London you are so proud of. Have you ever considered that for the best part those journeys they are made relatively safe, by rough men who stand ready to do violence on your behalf. I doubt it, you are far more interested in the size of the RAF. Do you actually believe its just the RAF that fly in the armed forces? I think I said before I couldn’t give a stuff about military airfields anymore they don’t affect me but.
To lump EGWU into “They are a relic of WW2 and TBH are not really necessary” is utter gibberish, no its actually worse; who appointed you Minister of Defence. If you had ever needed to fly or air traffic a military aircraft into the centre of London you would know why. Have you ever tried to grope over the Chilterns in poor weather, I doubt it. The precision radar head at EGWU on the other side of the Chilterns, is fundamental to the first rule of government. Happen you read all of my posts and you just might understand but somehow - I doubt it.
I bow to your vast experience of living on the M40 albeit, who actually gives a ***t and to your experience of the choo choo train journeys into London you are so proud of. Have you ever considered that for the best part those journeys they are made relatively safe, by rough men who stand ready to do violence on your behalf. I doubt it, you are far more interested in the size of the RAF. Do you actually believe its just the RAF that fly in the armed forces? I think I said before I couldn’t give a stuff about military airfields anymore they don’t affect me but.
To lump EGWU into “They are a relic of WW2 and TBH are not really necessary” is utter gibberish, no its actually worse; who appointed you Minister of Defence. If you had ever needed to fly or air traffic a military aircraft into the centre of London you would know why. Have you ever tried to grope over the Chilterns in poor weather, I doubt it. The precision radar head at EGWU on the other side of the Chilterns, is fundamental to the first rule of government. Happen you read all of my posts and you just might understand but somehow - I doubt it.
Last edited by MOSTAFA; 29th Jan 2017 at 07:04. Reason: Spell checker didn't like ICAO
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Ban Chiang,Thailand
Age: 67
Posts: 191
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
One assumes the socialist overlords at Ealing Council proposing this do not live anywhere near Northolt, or anywhere likely to be affected by this barmy proposal?.
The traffic is backed up on the local roads 7 days a week before you add some 30,000 plus vehicles into the area with no improvement in the local infrastructure, which even if proposed would be opposed by the local residents.
One wonders what sort of relationship there might just be between said leaders of Ealing council and any prospective developers?.
The traffic is backed up on the local roads 7 days a week before you add some 30,000 plus vehicles into the area with no improvement in the local infrastructure, which even if proposed would be opposed by the local residents.
One wonders what sort of relationship there might just be between said leaders of Ealing council and any prospective developers?.
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: London
Posts: 7,072
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You are confusing Air Traffic with National Security MOSTAFA
I stand by my point - every time someone suggests closing any miltary airfield in the UK this Forum is full of people coming up with the most amazing reasons why said airfield is absolutely essential for the defence of the realm. I understand why people have an emotional attachment to places they've served but they can't ALL be necessary when the size of our armed forces has reduced so far.- correct?
And statements like :_
"The precision radar head at EGWU on the other side of the Chilterns, is fundamental to the first rule of government" are.... amusing. I must have missed that in the last SDR................
In a real emergency the Govt would just take over Heathrow, Gatwick and/or City
If they need to bring troops in to town (to supplmment those already there - which are not inconsiderable) the nearest bases are in Aldershot - you're not suggesting they will fly them from Farnborough or 'Bushe to NW London are you?
I stand by my point - every time someone suggests closing any miltary airfield in the UK this Forum is full of people coming up with the most amazing reasons why said airfield is absolutely essential for the defence of the realm. I understand why people have an emotional attachment to places they've served but they can't ALL be necessary when the size of our armed forces has reduced so far.- correct?
And statements like :_
"The precision radar head at EGWU on the other side of the Chilterns, is fundamental to the first rule of government" are.... amusing. I must have missed that in the last SDR................
In a real emergency the Govt would just take over Heathrow, Gatwick and/or City
If they need to bring troops in to town (to supplmment those already there - which are not inconsiderable) the nearest bases are in Aldershot - you're not suggesting they will fly them from Farnborough or 'Bushe to NW London are you?
HH, I am confusing absolutely nothing and have the scars to prove it. Try reading what I say, just for once and think from the confines of your fluffy armchair, read; instead of quoting liberal socialist garbage. Stop trying to obfuscate the issue of what I am trying to clarify for you - FGS - we are now going into 'Aldershot' according to your fantasy, where next, oh hang on, we could use EGVO thats only just down the road from there, they could catch one of those lovely trains you are so keen on oh hang on a minute, where is there nearest station?
If you showed just an ounce of common dog and thought about the rubbish you spout, you'd perhaps understand, that bringing Heathrow to a standstill by closing EGLL is not; and never will be an option, 18'ish hours a day, you have as many as 40 big aeroplanes landing at EGLL every hour, and a further 60 on the other side taking off, just think of the queues that involves in the airspace above, even on a normal day, did you know what a fabulous job they do controlling that lot? Add to that the countless helicopters needing clearances through or under that lot. Some of those big aeroplanes left their departure points 13 hours before! I have already tried to explain the reasons for not using LCA!
You would understand precisely what I am trying to say if you listened and answered my very simple questions to you. Do you have a vested interest in EGUW or Military Aviation or are you just on here to agitate. I once, yep, just once, did an ILS in a helicopter into EGLL I think the MOD is still trying to sort out the legal claims from all over the world, not to mention the slot times that I screwed up.
Well I can't be bothered anymore I'd rather try to educate pork. Feel free to come back with some other brilliant plan but I don't think you understand the geographical importance of EGUW and If it wasn't mentioned on SDR, (I certainly didn't read it)!!! I'm surprised, happen it wasn't mentioned for a reason. You certainly cannot lump it in with your 40 RAF stations you consider superfluous around the UK.
If you showed just an ounce of common dog and thought about the rubbish you spout, you'd perhaps understand, that bringing Heathrow to a standstill by closing EGLL is not; and never will be an option, 18'ish hours a day, you have as many as 40 big aeroplanes landing at EGLL every hour, and a further 60 on the other side taking off, just think of the queues that involves in the airspace above, even on a normal day, did you know what a fabulous job they do controlling that lot? Add to that the countless helicopters needing clearances through or under that lot. Some of those big aeroplanes left their departure points 13 hours before! I have already tried to explain the reasons for not using LCA!
You would understand precisely what I am trying to say if you listened and answered my very simple questions to you. Do you have a vested interest in EGUW or Military Aviation or are you just on here to agitate. I once, yep, just once, did an ILS in a helicopter into EGLL I think the MOD is still trying to sort out the legal claims from all over the world, not to mention the slot times that I screwed up.
Well I can't be bothered anymore I'd rather try to educate pork. Feel free to come back with some other brilliant plan but I don't think you understand the geographical importance of EGUW and If it wasn't mentioned on SDR, (I certainly didn't read it)!!! I'm surprised, happen it wasn't mentioned for a reason. You certainly cannot lump it in with your 40 RAF stations you consider superfluous around the UK.
So Heathrow or Gatwick would allow a C17 with an Ebola patient in the back to land and disrupt the airport as they would want to close to all operations, well no hope with that. The cost of landing a civil air ambulance into either is extortionate and not really feasible.
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: London
Posts: 7,072
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Air Pig- your example is typical of the sort of arguements everyone makes to retain favourite base - there are many other places a C-17 can land with an Ebola patient for example
I'm sure Mostafa is making a some decent points from an ATC view but my whole point is that it will never be viewed on those grounds by the people who take the decisions. It is not simply a military decision now the politicians are involved - you may dislike the idea intensley but it 's now a fact..
As for UK Defence I think it's currently a b***** discgrace - we desperately need a politcian in a position of power to start banging the drum on this (I'm not holding my breath).
What is needed is more personnel, more money for personnel and a focus on useful kit. Real estate is not even 50th on the list of priorities ..................
I'm sure Mostafa is making a some decent points from an ATC view but my whole point is that it will never be viewed on those grounds by the people who take the decisions. It is not simply a military decision now the politicians are involved - you may dislike the idea intensley but it 's now a fact..
As for UK Defence I think it's currently a b***** discgrace - we desperately need a politcian in a position of power to start banging the drum on this (I'm not holding my breath).
What is needed is more personnel, more money for personnel and a focus on useful kit. Real estate is not even 50th on the list of priorities ..................
HH, We have one, he's called the Minister of Defence. Personally, I wouldn't trust him, to sit the right way round on a toilet seat. Why? Because of the fluffy liberal mess, our politicians of all parties have got us into; on a utterly false philosophy, a doctrine, thats fostered by delusional minorities, and is promoted by the shady media, that somehow still believes its possible to pick up a turd by the clean end!
That said I'd suggest he is very likely to ensure EGUW remains open as an RAF station for the reason I have tried to inform you of.
I want to make it quite clear I couldn’t give a toss anymore about military airfields but, you cannot include this one in your list, for all the reasons stated, that said, time will tell but the winds in the western worlds a changing, and I think pretty quickly.
That said I'd suggest he is very likely to ensure EGUW remains open as an RAF station for the reason I have tried to inform you of.
I want to make it quite clear I couldn’t give a toss anymore about military airfields but, you cannot include this one in your list, for all the reasons stated, that said, time will tell but the winds in the western worlds a changing, and I think pretty quickly.
Last edited by MOSTAFA; 29th Jan 2017 at 15:52. Reason: More trouble with ICAO
HH, Northolt is the nearest to the Royal Free Hospital. Having an Ebola or other haemorrhagic fever patient on transport is risk, should be the shortest possible transfer time.
Ever tried to move a critically ill aeromedical patient, no I suspect not, I have. Biggin Hill is difficult to transfer from in particular with spinal injury patients, Luton is 40 miles away Oxford restricted hours and capability to handle aeromedical flights, Farnborough again distance. All others far too expensive.
Why shouldn't the MoD make money from their airfield?
The owners of Biggin Hill and Kidlington have wanted Northolt closed for a long time and even went to court about it and failed. Is there any form of connection between them and the council?
Ever tried to move a critically ill aeromedical patient, no I suspect not, I have. Biggin Hill is difficult to transfer from in particular with spinal injury patients, Luton is 40 miles away Oxford restricted hours and capability to handle aeromedical flights, Farnborough again distance. All others far too expensive.
Why shouldn't the MoD make money from their airfield?
The owners of Biggin Hill and Kidlington have wanted Northolt closed for a long time and even went to court about it and failed. Is there any form of connection between them and the council?
