RTÉ: RAF plane make unapproved landing at EINN
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RTÉ: RAF plane make unapproved landing at EINN
According to RTÉ, 18th Jan 2017, an RAF C130 landed at Shannon on Dec 29th last without prior government approval.
RAF plane made unapproved Shannon landing
JAS
RAF plane made unapproved Shannon landing
JAS
the only remotely interesting thing about this is whether it was a pre-planned landing, and the requirement for diplomatic clearance got lost in the fog, or whether it was an on-the-hop decision by the aircraft commander who wasn't happy with his/her fuel state...
the press nerds amongst us might note that all the different Irish media who have run this story are using exactly the same copy.
the press nerds amongst us might note that all the different Irish media who have run this story are using exactly the same copy.
RAF in 'utterly shocking' unauthorised Hercules plane landing in Ireland - Sky News
https://apple.news/A0MDy3OhhT9KyBXGEojiaEA
https://apple.news/A0MDy3OhhT9KyBXGEojiaEA
Its just a wee Stormont and the Taoiseach . . . 
Nah, have to work on that one a bit more.
Anyway, I'm sure they had ATC clearance to land which, other than in an emergency, would have suggested to the captain that dip clearance had been granted.
Nah, have to work on that one a bit more.
Anyway, I'm sure they had ATC clearance to land which, other than in an emergency, would have suggested to the captain that dip clearance had been granted.
As it's one of 29 such landings in Eire by RAF aircraft in 2016, I guess it's just a paperwork problem. the fact it occurred on the 29th Dec might be a clue as to the source of the hold up!
It's been blown out of proportion for some political capital by one politician.
It's been blown out of proportion for some political capital by one politician.
Indeed.
Was the aircraft expected: yes
Did it speak to the ATC region and pass its intentions: yes
Did it receive an ATC hand-over to the airfield: yes
Did it comply with ATC instructions: yes
Did it receive landing clearance: yes
Did it receive taxi instructions: yes
Did it receive ground support and refuelling: yes
Did it pay for the above services: yes
Did a stupid politician make far too much of an issue regarding the dip clr paperwork when a friendly next door neighbour's state aircraft lands at one of its airfields, even when they live under the air defence umbrella provided by that state, has open boarders with that state and has joint responsibility for certain parts of governance of that state: yes
Was the aircraft expected: yes
Did it speak to the ATC region and pass its intentions: yes
Did it receive an ATC hand-over to the airfield: yes
Did it comply with ATC instructions: yes
Did it receive landing clearance: yes
Did it receive taxi instructions: yes
Did it receive ground support and refuelling: yes
Did it pay for the above services: yes
Did a stupid politician make far too much of an issue regarding the dip clr paperwork when a friendly next door neighbour's state aircraft lands at one of its airfields, even when they live under the air defence umbrella provided by that state, has open boarders with that state and has joint responsibility for certain parts of governance of that state: yes
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I remember this happening once before. 771 put a Sea King into Eire at the end of a Sarop, no drama as conventions exist to cover that. They went down bird and the Sqn sent a follow up cab but without dip clearance. The military attaché made a couple of quick phone calls and it turned into a non event.
However, taking a military aircraft into a foreign country without dip clearance is technically an invasion so I can see the Irish point of view here.
However, taking a military aircraft into a foreign country without dip clearance is technically an invasion so I can see the Irish point of view here.
I've never been over-impressed by the British Foreign Office.
Just try, as an airline captain, asking them for an opinion on the risks for foreign civilians in an overseas country . . .
Just try, as an airline captain, asking them for an opinion on the risks for foreign civilians in an overseas country . . .
Having been involved in Dipclear quite a lot recently, very rarely is the FCO at fault. It is nearly always a local co-ordination problem, generally by process between host military and host foreign affairs.
Not helped in some countries where there is little to no delegation of powers out of hours.
Not helped in some countries where there is little to no delegation of powers out of hours.
Basil,
The FCO is limited to giving advice as contained in the FCO travel Advice. Now that may seem tautological, but the FCO Travel Advice is a cross-government piece of work reviewed as often as necessary by seniors from FCO, MOS, Home Office, plus the Security Services. In my previous role I would actively contribute to it, sometimes daily, but would also get enquiries from MOD and PJHQ, saying 'yes, but what's it really like?'. This one agreed security advice avoids the chaotic system the US has, whereby DOD, COCOMS and State Deparment can give wildly differing advice.
Some of you will know a colleague of mine (RAF) who ignored FCO travel advice very recently, and narrowly missed being involved in a terrorist incident with his family; indeed they passed the gunman as he walked up the road to attack a nightclub!
The FCO is limited to giving advice as contained in the FCO travel Advice. Now that may seem tautological, but the FCO Travel Advice is a cross-government piece of work reviewed as often as necessary by seniors from FCO, MOS, Home Office, plus the Security Services. In my previous role I would actively contribute to it, sometimes daily, but would also get enquiries from MOD and PJHQ, saying 'yes, but what's it really like?'. This one agreed security advice avoids the chaotic system the US has, whereby DOD, COCOMS and State Deparment can give wildly differing advice.
Some of you will know a colleague of mine (RAF) who ignored FCO travel advice very recently, and narrowly missed being involved in a terrorist incident with his family; indeed they passed the gunman as he walked up the road to attack a nightclub!
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Tabs please !
So, both ATC and diplomatic clearances are required ?
To be sure, to be sure.
To be sure, to be sure.
Ireland is a very friendly and cooperative neighbour far removed from the political rant in the press. I am slightly surprised that the Irish press has not linked their recent coverage to previous articles on Irish airspace post 9/11, Russian incursions, notifications and alerts from the UK, RAF Typhoons escorting intruders etc etc.
When Bear chasing a while ago, the Air Defence system picked up a pair of northbound Bears to the south west of Eire. The only way to catch them from where we were was to route across Eire to achieve cut off.
SOC obtained clearance immediately from the Irish, who couldn't have been more helpful; we were cleared as required and nabbed our targets.
SOC obtained clearance immediately from the Irish, who couldn't have been more helpful; we were cleared as required and nabbed our targets.
Last edited by BEagle; 20th Jan 2017 at 13:44.
The British Embassy in Dublin has since told Irish officials that the Hercules was unarmed ...