PPRuNe Forums


Military Aviation A forum for the professionals who fly military hardware. Also for the backroom boys and girls who support the flying and maintain the equipment, and without whom nothing would ever leave the ground. All armies, navies and air forces of the world equally welcome here.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 10th Jan 2017, 13:14   #21 (permalink)
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 134
Such flights do happen on occasions and a number of the perpetrators get caught due to prior intelligence gained by the authorities. This link highlights a similar illegal immigrant flight that was monitored by the police with a successful outcome.

Immigrant smugglers caught after sky chase - Telegraph
happybiker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th Jan 2017, 16:00   #22 (permalink)
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Lincolnshire
Age: 73
Posts: 14,090
GeeRam, very true, Woodhall Spa runways are only suitable for float planes now and East Kirkby is now shorter and grass. Spilsby has disppeared under sheds. Metheringham and Manby are intact.
Pontius Navigator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th Jan 2017, 17:25   #23 (permalink)
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: London/Oxford/New York
Posts: 1,645
PN,

Manby is most definetly NOT intact!

Runways and all taxiways dug up and removed and tower demolished years ago.

Metheringham is also only hanging on with vast swathes of concrete lifted.
pr00ne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th Jan 2017, 17:54   #24 (permalink)
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Lincolnshire
Age: 73
Posts: 14,090
Metheringham was perfectly usable for an illicit light aircraft last time I drove down it. Manby has a perfectly suitable taxiway. Then there is Stubby too.
Pontius Navigator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th Jan 2017, 18:06   #25 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: In the past, or Jersey, or somewhere abroad
Age: 72
Posts: 3,061
Strubby 33 (?) doesn't look well ... it wasn't even used for taxying in 65

But, agreed, light aircraft can get into all sort of small places, whether they have well-maintained landing surfaces or not.
MPN11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th Jan 2017, 18:14   #26 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Budapest
Posts: 64
Presumably closed borders following brexit will sort this problem?
Expatrick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th Jan 2017, 18:16   #27 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: AndyCappLand
Age: 95
Posts: 5,829
Man-carrying Drones can't be far away !
Danny42C is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th Jan 2017, 07:43   #28 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: The back of beyond
Posts: 1,211
Quote:
Presumably closed borders following brexit will sort this problem?
More likely to make it worse. We have border controls already, which don't seem to be working, and Brexit will potentially add millions more people to the list of those unable to enter to the country legally.
melmothtw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th Jan 2017, 14:57   #29 (permalink)
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: England
Posts: 885
Why cant we monitor lower airspace for potential intruders more effectively? Like many have pointed out above we face not just low flying aircraft, but now UAVs, or drones or paragliders or whatever.
Is it that difficult? Is it cost against likelihood? Granted we couldn't do the whole UK but how about from the Lizard to the Wash, or Humber even?

Also what do the Israelis do? They must counter their threat somehow.
Hangarshuffle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th Jan 2017, 15:10   #30 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Baston
Posts: 1,073
That airfields list gave me a nasty touch of nostalgia.

Looking down the list.......... served there on posting, served there on detachment, did a course there, tught there, did an inspection visit there, was a passenger from there/into there, got my kippers from there, drove past that in its heyday ...............

sic transit.
langleybaston is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th Jan 2017, 15:27   #31 (permalink)
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Lincolnshire
Age: 73
Posts: 14,090
HS, the difficulty we now face is exactly the same weakness that the Soviet Union faced 50 years ago and they reinforced their air policing with missiles. Remember Mathias Rust, now if anyone should have been intercepted it was he.

Now supposing we were warned of the departure of a light aircraft from Europe and were able to observe it approaching the UK at low level, then what? Would we scramble a QRA Interceptor?

Let us supposed we decided that option was too expensive and instead were content to track the aircraft overland. We see it alight at some farmer's strip or disused airfield - or even an active RAF airfield out of hours (it has been done) - now what?

We notify the civil police who send a car hot foot to the landing ground. Would they be in time? They can't stop hare coursers so what chance immigrants?
Pontius Navigator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th Jan 2017, 20:06   #32 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: 11 GROUP
Age: 70
Posts: 633
The Big Picture

Compared to the thousands of unprotected beaches, harbours, and quiet inlets that make up the UK the 'Airfield ' issues are small,and are in the main 'overseen' by users and the unofficial control of Spotters. who are quite expert at noticing strange happenings anywhere.
With precious few resources available for control of 'strips' and former military fields it is up to the GA fraternity to assist where possible, and ensure we keep our 'freedom' which is of considerable benefit to us all.
As for 'contact' with authorities if there is something to report do not mess about with e-mail or pay for numbers just do the 999 bit, it still works amazingly well, and response times can be very good when needed.The authorities are stretched and we need to protect the freedom we enjoy; its a win win situation.
POBJOY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th Jan 2017, 21:31   #33 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Hertfordshire
Age: 50
Posts: 697
Quote:
Why cant we monitor lower airspace for potential intruders more effectively? Like many have pointed out above we face not just low flying aircraft, but now UAVs, or drones or paragliders or whatever.
Is it that difficult? Is it cost against likelihood? Granted we couldn't do the whole UK but how about from the Lizard to the Wash, or Humber even?
The Israelis have a whole lot less airspace to defend and a lot less airfields and even so, intruders still get through. As for the big picture, recording radar data is standard practice within ASACS and NATS who have their own low level surveillance radars. Any form of QRA may fail to catch the crooks on the ground, but the evidence of their actions is sitting on a Tape or hard drive at NATS or one of the CRC just waiting to be impounded as evidence for the court case and of course to ID the crooks in the first place after one of POBJOY's 'eyes' on the ground makes the initial call.
MAINJAFAD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th Jan 2017, 07:32   #34 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jan 1999
Location: north of barlu
Posts: 5,934
I operate a light aircraft from a former WW2 airfield that has been deemed by the authorities as being " high risk " for illegal activities, just the fact that the authorities have considered the possibility shows that they have an eye on the situation.

There is far more monitoring of these sites than is obvious to the casual observer.

Aircraft spotters are an unusually good source of information for the police and should not be underestimated, it should be remembered that it was the spotters who some time back alerted the police to an illegal entry to LHR......... not airport security.
A and C is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th Jan 2017, 09:11   #35 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Canberra
Posts: 20
W. E Johns wrote about this problem several times in the 50s and 60s. Those of us who grew up reading "Biggles" will remember many such stories.

Not a new problem, but with modern aircraft maybe a bigger problem than Johns envisaged all those years ago.
seafury45 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12th Jan 2017, 09:42   #36 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Japan
Posts: 214
Used to cycle up to nearby Seething as a teenager. We found mouldy belts of live machine gun ammunition in one building. It was never absolutely deserted, but we avoided contact with anyone as there was a feeling of no-man's land about the place.
jolihokistix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th Jan 2017, 10:19   #37 (permalink)
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Lincolnshire
Age: 73
Posts: 14,090
There was a Naval operation to report Warsaw Pact Shipping. There was a Freephone number for the spotters. Whilst 999 would work for the general public, for the aware a direct Freephone number would be good too, especially for after the event calls.
Pontius Navigator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12th Jan 2017, 10:41   #38 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: England
Posts: 1,161
MPN 11

Strubby is an active twin site airfield with a well maintained 700m tarmac runway and two grass strips one glider one fixed wing.

James Bond (Daniel Craig) has a (not so) secret strip not so far away!!!!!
There must be half a dozen private strips within 20 miles of Strubby.

Last edited by ericferret; 12th Jan 2017 at 10:53.
ericferret is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th Jan 2017, 22:07   #39 (permalink)
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: England
Posts: 885
Daily Mail are still cracking on about similar, and how they flew into blighty without much in the way of checks or hassle.
Where there's a will there's a way, like all things.
SUE REID exposes how Britain's many small airfields are vulnerable to terrorists | Daily Mail Online

Goodnight.
Hangarshuffle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th Jan 2017, 13:31   #40 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Uranus
Posts: 284
Spotters

A and C Said
"I operate a light aircraft from a former WW2 airfield that has been deemed by the authorities as being " high risk " for illegal activities, just the fact that the authorities have considered the possibility shows that they have an eye on the situation.

There is far more monitoring of these sites than is obvious to the casual observer.

Aircraft spotters are an unusually good source of information for the police and should not be underestimated, it should be remembered that it was the spotters who some time back alerted the police to an illegal entry to LHR......... not airport security."

I've heard tales about their ability to track aircraft and esp unusual types around the UK in practically real time and also their vigilance with regard to remote old strips.

Are there any other examples? Should point out I'm not a journalist and just for curiosity
Shaft109 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT. The time now is 08:11.


1996-2012 The Professional Pilots Rumour Network

SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1