Canada opts for Super Hornets
Thread Starter
Canada opts for Super Hornets
http://www.google.com.au/url?url=htt...AdjxLaMVgcWH0w
Canada is buying a few Super Hornets while their Government dithers on the full replacement of their fighter fleet. I guess their needed to stem the flow of political refugees from the USA!!
Canada is buying a few Super Hornets while their Government dithers on the full replacement of their fighter fleet. I guess their needed to stem the flow of political refugees from the USA!!
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Nothing new here, announced in June.
http://www.pprune.org/military-aviat...ml#post9400014
As I said at the time, a cynical way to buy F-18E/F/G (more orders doubtless to follow over the years) without holding a competition - the "new" competition no doubt slipping/extending into the future as, eventually, a F-18E/F/G replacement. The new USAF long range penetrator sounds far more designed for Canadian range needs.
http://www.pprune.org/military-aviat...ml#post9400014
As I said at the time, a cynical way to buy F-18E/F/G (more orders doubtless to follow over the years) without holding a competition - the "new" competition no doubt slipping/extending into the future as, eventually, a F-18E/F/G replacement. The new USAF long range penetrator sounds far more designed for Canadian range needs.
Last edited by ORAC; 23rd Nov 2016 at 11:58.
Some real gems in the article linked by TBM:
“We need to move on this as quickly as possible,”
Lockheed said Tuesday that the plane [F-35] was combat-ready and available today.
Canada’s plan to hold a transparent bidding process for fighter jets.....The bidding process could take five years.....
....measures will be implemented to extend the service of the current CF-18 fleet....
- Canada seems to dither worse than my 5 your old did picking out his prize at the carnival- FFS just pick something and stick to it.
I agree with ORAC this seems like a political out for a non-competition.
“We need to move on this as quickly as possible,”
Lockheed said Tuesday that the plane [F-35] was combat-ready and available today.
Canada’s plan to hold a transparent bidding process for fighter jets.....The bidding process could take five years.....
....measures will be implemented to extend the service of the current CF-18 fleet....
- Canada seems to dither worse than my 5 your old did picking out his prize at the carnival- FFS just pick something and stick to it.
I agree with ORAC this seems like a political out for a non-competition.
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Rafale - chosen by India, a country on a war foot - would have been great, but given the level of integration (submission) of the Canadian aerospace industry towards everything coming from the south, was never really considered.
Australia has been always more open (Mirage, helicopters, warships, submarines recently) but they are a little bit farther from Uncle Sam.
Australia has been always more open (Mirage, helicopters, warships, submarines recently) but they are a little bit farther from Uncle Sam.
Originally Posted by recceguy
India, a country on a war foot
I get your Gallic chauvinism in the rest of your post (any of us will tend to be "pro" the country we are from)
I don't understand why you characterize India's current position like that.
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Maybe, because of rising tensions between India and Pakistan in the Kashmir Provence..
See http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-38074202
See http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-38074202
Thread Starter
The RAAF went down the Super Hornet route to replace our F-111s. The preferred chariot was the F-15 Strike Eagle however the training and logistics required were many times the cost and efficiency of introducing the SH.
Pilot conversions from our existing Hornet fleet were straight forward requiring minimal time and the maintainers similarly. Time and cost won the day and I'm sure Canada will have the same experience.
Pilot conversions from our existing Hornet fleet were straight forward requiring minimal time and the maintainers similarly. Time and cost won the day and I'm sure Canada will have the same experience.
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The Oz DefMin of the day Nelso picked the Super Hornet out of the blue - then ret'd AVM Criss characterised it as a 'super dog'/'super dog squared'.
The 7.30 Report - ABC 18 Feb 2008
The 7.30 Report - ABC 18 Feb 2008
Thread Starter
If you believe anything on the ABC what are you smoking?
The RAAF was asked what aircraft could fill the role and quickly. Nelson wouldn't know one jet from another. Ronnie RAAF picked for the reasons above and it was available quickly basically taking USN slots by arrangement. My good colleague led I Sqn to the Gulf within 3 months of them arriving in OZ as the first cadre of pilots were ex-Hornet drivers many who had been there before. Transitioning to another type would mean a year or so delay in the IOC.
Nellis the other day..[USN]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4E-OdF7Uh4&t=5s
The RAAF was asked what aircraft could fill the role and quickly. Nelson wouldn't know one jet from another. Ronnie RAAF picked for the reasons above and it was available quickly basically taking USN slots by arrangement. My good colleague led I Sqn to the Gulf within 3 months of them arriving in OZ as the first cadre of pilots were ex-Hornet drivers many who had been there before. Transitioning to another type would mean a year or so delay in the IOC.
Nellis the other day..[USN]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4E-OdF7Uh4&t=5s
Evertonian
Also, the incoming ALP Govt. then backed the choice after a review didn't they? Regardless, it looks good with a Roo on it.
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'TBM-Legend' hmmm.... Retired AVM Criss said those words:
"MARK BANNERMAN ABC: ...Last year, the then Defence Minister Brendan Nelson made a decision to purchase 24 Super Hornet jet fighters. It left defence experts stunned.
Last year, you effectively said this plane was a dog. Have you changed your view in any way about that?
PETER CRISS: I said it was a super dog and it's a super dog squared as far as I'm concerned. As we found out more and more about it, it's abysmal in every area that is so critical to buying a fighter strike type aircraft. It cannot perform.
MARK BANNERMAN [ABC]: The former chief of Australia's operational Air Force isn't just worried about the choice of the Super Hornet that he believes is slower and more vulnerable than the plane it replaces, what really concerns Peter Criss most is that no one inside the Defence Force or the department was prepared to stand up and argue against the decision.
PETER CRISS: I know there's a bunch of them that know the Super Hornet is a dog, alright. They've told me, they've told acquaintances of mine, friends of mine that they are terribly concerned about it. But it was the decision taken by the Minister at very short notice for whatever reasons and foisted on them...."
Last year, you effectively said this plane was a dog. Have you changed your view in any way about that?
PETER CRISS: I said it was a super dog and it's a super dog squared as far as I'm concerned. As we found out more and more about it, it's abysmal in every area that is so critical to buying a fighter strike type aircraft. It cannot perform.
MARK BANNERMAN [ABC]: The former chief of Australia's operational Air Force isn't just worried about the choice of the Super Hornet that he believes is slower and more vulnerable than the plane it replaces, what really concerns Peter Criss most is that no one inside the Defence Force or the department was prepared to stand up and argue against the decision.
PETER CRISS: I know there's a bunch of them that know the Super Hornet is a dog, alright. They've told me, they've told acquaintances of mine, friends of mine that they are terribly concerned about it. But it was the decision taken by the Minister at very short notice for whatever reasons and foisted on them...."
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Canada's illustrious leader never wants to upset people (he's more interested in getting in a selfie!). He campaigned in the recent election that we would not buy the F-35 for various reasons. Now it seems someone has convinced him that is the best airplane but he can't buy it so he's punting the decision until after the next election.
FYI Canada will not buy the F-18G because we don't do electronic attack for FJ's. If ever required, we would just tack onto a strike package led by another country and let them do it.
What Canada does is long range patrol over very cold and barren terrain. This makes it immoral and unethical to get pilots to fly single engine FJ's. We also will never need a first day of war, kick down the door, type of FJ. We intercept Russion bombers and patrols over the Arctic, Atlantic and Pacific. If flying for NATO, we only patrol in protected airspace.
The F-18E/F is not noted as a hot rod compared to other current generation FJ's, but it will keep up with a strike package. I'm surprised the government didn't just buy a whole replacement lot of F-18's right now, but the liberals are masters at dithering and making sure everything will cost as much as possible.
FYI Canada will not buy the F-18G because we don't do electronic attack for FJ's. If ever required, we would just tack onto a strike package led by another country and let them do it.
What Canada does is long range patrol over very cold and barren terrain. This makes it immoral and unethical to get pilots to fly single engine FJ's. We also will never need a first day of war, kick down the door, type of FJ. We intercept Russion bombers and patrols over the Arctic, Atlantic and Pacific. If flying for NATO, we only patrol in protected airspace.
The F-18E/F is not noted as a hot rod compared to other current generation FJ's, but it will keep up with a strike package. I'm surprised the government didn't just buy a whole replacement lot of F-18's right now, but the liberals are masters at dithering and making sure everything will cost as much as possible.
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but the liberals are masters at dithering and making sure everything will cost as much as possible.
F-35 = Bad choice for the RCAF, period. Single engine FJ for Canada's territory, seriously, what were they thinking???
So what if the new guy decrees we're buying a few new 18's. The electorate have, generally speaking, had enough of the "ops normal" way of running a DoD acquisition process. I doubt if anyone is going to squawk too loudly about throwing down a bit of cash and giving the boys 'n girls a new jet.
How about if we, just for a change, leave the politics out of it and do what's proper for the folks honourable enough to put on the uniform.
Thread Starter
SpaZS
Pete Criss also said the RAAF should buy the F-22. He has obviously not read the American position on the F-22. Credibility in today's world low...
1. No more being built - ever
2. The F-22 is not for export even to close allies like Japan and Australia - well documented
Pete Criss also said the RAAF should buy the F-22. He has obviously not read the American position on the F-22. Credibility in today's world low...
1. No more being built - ever
2. The F-22 is not for export even to close allies like Japan and Australia - well documented
But Mr Criss says the RAAF should, in fact, consider buying the F-22 Raptor, an even more advanced — and expensive — combat aircraft than the F-35. Both aircraft are manufactured by Lockheed Martin.
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'TBM-LegEnd' that is interesting. Recently a bunch of Oz F-35 naysayers submissions to the Oz Senate F-35 Enquiry gave similar advice - restart F-22 line & buy 'em. I'm glad we can dismiss that notion out of hand and buy F-35s instead. Praise be.
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Realistically the Super Hornet will get the job done until UAVs can take over in a decade or two. The current fleet is too old and it needs replacement ASAP. Sure it can't dogfight that well, but it's got a great radar, modern electronics and missiles, and it's an easy transition.
It's the right move.
It's the right move.
Thread Starter
http://www.google.com.au/url?q=https...oWk8Py5RxT9b1Q
From FlightGlobal earlier this year..
From FlightGlobal earlier this year..
and:
The F-22 cannot be exported under American federal law to protect its stealth technology and other high-tech features. Customers for U.S. fighters are acquiring earlier designs such as the F-15 Eagle and F-16 Fighting Falcon or the newer F-35 Lightning II Joint Strike Fighter, which contains technology from the F-22 but was designed to be cheaper, more flexible, and available for export. In September 2006, Congress upheld the ban on foreign F-22 sales. Despite the ban, the 2010 defense authorization bill included provisions requiring the DoD to prepare a report on the costs and feasibility for an F-22 export variant, and another report on the effect of F-22 export sales on U.S. aerospace industry.
Some Australian politicians and defense commentators proposed that Australia should attempt to purchase F-22s instead of the planned F-35s, citing the F-22's known capabilities and F-35's delays and developmental uncertainties.However, the Royal Australian Air Force (RAAF) determined that the F-22 was unable to perform the F-35's strike and close air support roles. The Japanese government also showed interest in the F-22 for its Replacement-Fighter program. The Japan Air Self-Defense Force (JASDF) would reportedly require fewer fighters for its mission if it obtained the F-22, thus reducing engineering and staffing costs. However, in 2009 it was reported that acquiring the F-22 would require increases to the defense budget beyond the historical 1 percent of GDP. With the end of F-22 production, Japan chose the F-35 in December 2011. Israel also expressed interest, but eventually chose the F-35 because of the F-22's price and unavailability.
The F-22 cannot be exported under American federal law to protect its stealth technology and other high-tech features. Customers for U.S. fighters are acquiring earlier designs such as the F-15 Eagle and F-16 Fighting Falcon or the newer F-35 Lightning II Joint Strike Fighter, which contains technology from the F-22 but was designed to be cheaper, more flexible, and available for export. In September 2006, Congress upheld the ban on foreign F-22 sales. Despite the ban, the 2010 defense authorization bill included provisions requiring the DoD to prepare a report on the costs and feasibility for an F-22 export variant, and another report on the effect of F-22 export sales on U.S. aerospace industry.
Some Australian politicians and defense commentators proposed that Australia should attempt to purchase F-22s instead of the planned F-35s, citing the F-22's known capabilities and F-35's delays and developmental uncertainties.However, the Royal Australian Air Force (RAAF) determined that the F-22 was unable to perform the F-35's strike and close air support roles. The Japanese government also showed interest in the F-22 for its Replacement-Fighter program. The Japan Air Self-Defense Force (JASDF) would reportedly require fewer fighters for its mission if it obtained the F-22, thus reducing engineering and staffing costs. However, in 2009 it was reported that acquiring the F-22 would require increases to the defense budget beyond the historical 1 percent of GDP. With the end of F-22 production, Japan chose the F-35 in December 2011. Israel also expressed interest, but eventually chose the F-35 because of the F-22's price and unavailability.