Ac-130J Ghostrider
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Thread Starter
Ac-130J Ghostrider
Impressive punch, but how vulnerable over the battlefield? The cannons would seem to imply a necessity to operate in manpad range.
https://www.airforcetimes.com/articl...nemies-running
"The AC-130J Ghostrider is set to be the most heavily-armed gunship in history, bristling with 30mm and 105mm cannons, AGM-176A Griffin missiles, and the ability to carry Hellfire missiles and GBU-39 Small Diameter Bombs........
The AGM-176A Griffin missiles are the centerpiece of the Ghostrider’s precision-strike package – and part of what makes it truly stand above its predecessors. The plane carries 10 Griffins, which are essentially half-scale Hellfire missiles that are laser-guided, with a fragmentation warhead and a GPS backup to ensure it lands on target. Each Griffin stands nose-up in a roughly 4-foot-tall tube mounted in its tail. When it’s time to fire, the Griffin is electrically launched out of the back of the plane, pops out its fins, and orients itself into the windstream. When it’s far enough away, its rocket motor fires and it “goes screaming off past the plane,” Beers said..........
But those missiles – being precision-guided munitions – are much more expensive than the 30mm or 105mm shells, Beers said. So they’re typically reserved for the highest-priority targets that must be hit with the greatest accuracy. The AC-130J also can carry Hellfire missiles and GBU-39 Small Diameter Bombs. All the various weapons on board allow the crew to gradually escalate the amount of force used to meet the threat. “So, [we] take out the smaller targets with the 30, then escalate up to the 105, and even the 250-pound glide munitions [GBU-39 bombs] as we go up,” Beers said.
And it could get even cooler. At the Air Force Association’s conference last September, Heithold declared, “I want a high-energy laser on an AC-130J gunship by the close of this decade.” “This isn’t Star Wars stuff, folks,” he continued. “The technology is ripe for doing this. I’ve got the space, I’ve got the weight, and I’ve got the power.”.......
Heithold has also suggested buttressing the plane’s capabilities with small drones to help it fight in heavy cloud cover. When targets are under thick clouds, he said, the 130J can’t identify and hit them. But if the plane could launch a drone from its rear tubes, instead of the usual missile, Heithold said it could fly below the clouds and target the enemy.
Beers also said a drone could help in mountainous terrain, or in areas with heavy fire that would otherwise endanger the 130J. “So now I'm not risking myself and my crew in order to go in and prosecute that target,” he said. It would “give us an advantage over previous generation gunships at that point.”.......
The AC-130J was dinged by the Pentagon’s weapons testers, the Office of the Director, Operational Test and Evaluation, in a 2013 report for having lighter armor than its predecessor, the AC-130U. The report said the AC-130U’s armor protects aircrew stations, personnel, ammunition and critical systems against a 37mm high-explosive incendiary round at a range of 10,000 feet, or about 3,000 meters. The AC-130J’s armor, on the other hand, protects primary crewmember positions and oxygen supplies against a 7.62mm ball projectile at 100 meters, the report said. The armor on the AC-130J also doesn’t cover the Mission Operator Pallet, which weapons testers said should be considered a primary crewmember position and protected......"
In Memory Of "Spirit 03" Jan 31, 1991 | ShadowSpear Special Operations
https://www.airforcetimes.com/articl...nemies-running
"The AC-130J Ghostrider is set to be the most heavily-armed gunship in history, bristling with 30mm and 105mm cannons, AGM-176A Griffin missiles, and the ability to carry Hellfire missiles and GBU-39 Small Diameter Bombs........
The AGM-176A Griffin missiles are the centerpiece of the Ghostrider’s precision-strike package – and part of what makes it truly stand above its predecessors. The plane carries 10 Griffins, which are essentially half-scale Hellfire missiles that are laser-guided, with a fragmentation warhead and a GPS backup to ensure it lands on target. Each Griffin stands nose-up in a roughly 4-foot-tall tube mounted in its tail. When it’s time to fire, the Griffin is electrically launched out of the back of the plane, pops out its fins, and orients itself into the windstream. When it’s far enough away, its rocket motor fires and it “goes screaming off past the plane,” Beers said..........
But those missiles – being precision-guided munitions – are much more expensive than the 30mm or 105mm shells, Beers said. So they’re typically reserved for the highest-priority targets that must be hit with the greatest accuracy. The AC-130J also can carry Hellfire missiles and GBU-39 Small Diameter Bombs. All the various weapons on board allow the crew to gradually escalate the amount of force used to meet the threat. “So, [we] take out the smaller targets with the 30, then escalate up to the 105, and even the 250-pound glide munitions [GBU-39 bombs] as we go up,” Beers said.
And it could get even cooler. At the Air Force Association’s conference last September, Heithold declared, “I want a high-energy laser on an AC-130J gunship by the close of this decade.” “This isn’t Star Wars stuff, folks,” he continued. “The technology is ripe for doing this. I’ve got the space, I’ve got the weight, and I’ve got the power.”.......
Heithold has also suggested buttressing the plane’s capabilities with small drones to help it fight in heavy cloud cover. When targets are under thick clouds, he said, the 130J can’t identify and hit them. But if the plane could launch a drone from its rear tubes, instead of the usual missile, Heithold said it could fly below the clouds and target the enemy.
Beers also said a drone could help in mountainous terrain, or in areas with heavy fire that would otherwise endanger the 130J. “So now I'm not risking myself and my crew in order to go in and prosecute that target,” he said. It would “give us an advantage over previous generation gunships at that point.”.......
The AC-130J was dinged by the Pentagon’s weapons testers, the Office of the Director, Operational Test and Evaluation, in a 2013 report for having lighter armor than its predecessor, the AC-130U. The report said the AC-130U’s armor protects aircrew stations, personnel, ammunition and critical systems against a 37mm high-explosive incendiary round at a range of 10,000 feet, or about 3,000 meters. The AC-130J’s armor, on the other hand, protects primary crewmember positions and oxygen supplies against a 7.62mm ball projectile at 100 meters, the report said. The armor on the AC-130J also doesn’t cover the Mission Operator Pallet, which weapons testers said should be considered a primary crewmember position and protected......"
In Memory Of "Spirit 03" Jan 31, 1991 | ShadowSpear Special Operations
Orac,
They nearly always operate at night and at a reasonable altitude, which makes acquisition by a MANPADS much harder. Probably has IR Suppression of some form as well. They will, doubtless, have MWS and DIRCM/Flares in case they get tagged. Ergo, kit & TTPs keep them safe. The amount of weapons is starting to remind me of this scene....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHYGgOXww48
They nearly always operate at night and at a reasonable altitude, which makes acquisition by a MANPADS much harder. Probably has IR Suppression of some form as well. They will, doubtless, have MWS and DIRCM/Flares in case they get tagged. Ergo, kit & TTPs keep them safe. The amount of weapons is starting to remind me of this scene....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHYGgOXww48
Tabs please !
I wonder what happens when Mr high energy l@ser meets Mr cheap as chips optical box reflector ?
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I remember reading a great book on the Herc gunships during the Vietnam war, currently available here:
https://www.amazon.com/Gunship-Spect.../dp/0671628674
Even in those days the amount of firepower was mind boggling, and all they had to do was fly round in circles....
https://www.amazon.com/Gunship-Spect.../dp/0671628674
Even in those days the amount of firepower was mind boggling, and all they had to do was fly round in circles....
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Thread Starter
From the text, that's what the laser would primarily be expected to be.
However, the advantage of the gunship was to have a cheap weapon on-station using guns and rounds - like the A-10.
The argument against the A-10 is that a more flexible platform, be it F-16 or B-1/52, can do the same job using PGms from a safe height out of SAMPAD/AAA range. The same argument holds true for the Ghostrider.
If the artillery is increasingly going to be supplemented by missiles, SDBs and lasers, why put them on a platform which is vulnerable during daylight and not fast enough to escape if caught? Why not spend the money on far more munitions for the multi-role platforms you already have??????
However, the advantage of the gunship was to have a cheap weapon on-station using guns and rounds - like the A-10.
The argument against the A-10 is that a more flexible platform, be it F-16 or B-1/52, can do the same job using PGms from a safe height out of SAMPAD/AAA range. The same argument holds true for the Ghostrider.
If the artillery is increasingly going to be supplemented by missiles, SDBs and lasers, why put them on a platform which is vulnerable during daylight and not fast enough to escape if caught? Why not spend the money on far more munitions for the multi-role platforms you already have??????
Orac, having worked with the AC-130 it's biggest strengths are low CEP for working close to own troops, a LOT of ordnance so it doesn't "Winchester" on a couple of passes and the fact that it's got gas to burn - it won't be at the tanker when you need it most! The latter makes it v cost effective, replacing the need for 6 or so jets and a tanker to be tasked for a deliberate Op.
ORAC, having had the chance to work with AC-130's (spooky and specter) in the past, I won't comment other than to observe that it is used for particular missions, and is not a "one size fits all" asset.
The J model is simply the upgrade to the C-130 J family ... but of course the mission systems people wanted upgrades too.
When it is called for, I expect the J to do just fine. Nice capability, and as Evalu8ter pointed out, some distinct advantages for particular calls for fire from the ground units.
The J model is simply the upgrade to the C-130 J family ... but of course the mission systems people wanted upgrades too.
When it is called for, I expect the J to do just fine. Nice capability, and as Evalu8ter pointed out, some distinct advantages for particular calls for fire from the ground units.
Yes I noticed the speed tape too!
B Fraser - I suspect Mr 30mm or Mr 105mm might follow-up, rendering Mr optical reflector a little... redundant?
Hey Ho the laser didn't work - boom!!!
B Fraser - I suspect Mr 30mm or Mr 105mm might follow-up, rendering Mr optical reflector a little... redundant?
Hey Ho the laser didn't work - boom!!!
Odd how that C-130 droning sound all night long makes for sound sleeping.....but when it is not there.....it seemed one eye wanted to stay open!
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ORAC
I agree about the mention of a la-s-er in the article, but my suggestion was a general one.
The AC130 has a very specific mission set (using technology taken from a peaceful idea for once rather than the other way round).
With modern SAMs having a longer range than the tradition anti radiation missiles used against them I could imagine a CIWS armed large aircraft that could also act as a misileer could be useful to have loitering as it could soak up longer ranged missiles while allowing growlers etc to get in closer to the radar sites.
That may be total pie in the sky and there may be no takers to sit in a large loitering aircraft but its still an idea.
I agree about the mention of a la-s-er in the article, but my suggestion was a general one.
The AC130 has a very specific mission set (using technology taken from a peaceful idea for once rather than the other way round).
With modern SAMs having a longer range than the tradition anti radiation missiles used against them I could imagine a CIWS armed large aircraft that could also act as a misileer could be useful to have loitering as it could soak up longer ranged missiles while allowing growlers etc to get in closer to the radar sites.
That may be total pie in the sky and there may be no takers to sit in a large loitering aircraft but its still an idea.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
SASLess, I imagine the soporific nature of the drone depends on who owns it.
BS, I presume you mean inside the MEZ but outside the kill zone, balls of steel to avoid balls of fire
BS, I presume you mean inside the MEZ but outside the kill zone, balls of steel to avoid balls of fire
