UK MOD/Defence related jobs for civilian pilots??

[7779]

Hi there,

I'm due to finish my ATPL training in the next year, obviously the natural progression is into the airlines which is/was the primary plan. However, my old first preference was to be a RAF pilot although for various reasons, mainly medical, that was not possible.

I seen a recent job advertisement for Cobham Aviation for the Falcon fleet; I don't know an awful lot about this company, or the civilian side of the defence industry for that matter. I presume Cobham are contracted to provide a simulated enemy for the RN/RAF? I think a few years back a few A330 rated pilots joined the RAF Reserve on the Voyager fleet, another example that springs to mind.

Anyhow, it got me thinking (probably a dangerous thing) and I'm wondering if any of you on here could shed some light on this sector, just what exactly are the opportunities for civilian pilots to get involved in military aviation, if any?

Obviously, I will most likely be too inexperienced as a fATPL holder, I'm sure these jobs would be oversubscribed and perhaps they are maybe too awful to contemplate; but at least if I know what is available then perhaps I could chart a course to get there in the future.

Many thanks for any help/info that can be spared.

Regards,

7779

[chopper2004]

Originally Posted by 7779

Hi there,

I'm due to finish my ATPL training in the next year, obviously the natural progression is into the airlines which is/was the primary plan. However, my old first preference was to be a RAF pilot although for various reasons, mainly medical, that was not possible.

I seen a recent job advertisement for Cobham Aviation for the Falcon fleet; I don't know an awful lot about this company, or the civilian side of the defence industry for that matter. I presume Cobham are contracted to provide a simulated enemy for the RN/RAF? I think a few years back a few A330 rated pilots joined the RAF Reserve on the Voyager fleet, another example that springs to mind.

Anyhow, it got me thinking (probably a dangerous thing) and I'm wondering if any of you on here could shed some light on this sector, just what exactly are the opportunities for civilian pilots to get involved in military aviation, if any?

Obviously, I will most likely be too inexperienced as a fATPL holder, I'm sure these jobs would be oversubscribed and perhaps they are maybe too awful to contemplate; but at least if I know what is available then perhaps I could chart a course to get there in the future.

Many thanks for any help/info that can be spared.

Regards,

7779

I suspect 3/4 if not all the pilots in employment by CObham Aviation especially w.r.t threat simulation are ex RAF/RN. They have had experience at the other end and fly the Falcon tactically and at low level close to the flight envelope and limits as military jets.

Likewise with Cobham Helicopter Services instructors with DHFS at RAF Shawbury, Valley etc are ex RAF/FAA/AAC as they are training the next generation of mil RW aircrews.

Simple reason for the above as an example is that they have all been through the military system, done a couple or several operational tours so have had the experience to pass on their experiences and wisdom to the next generation.

Airtanker is the odd one out as any tanking would take place (hopefully) out the danger zone. All the pilots have to do is fly like they do commerically ona racetrack pattern while the drogue (or if wish list gets bigger and bears fruition) boom operator is more than likely to be ex RAF AT WSO who has Tristar or VC-10 experience.

With the British International contract for VERTREP / Flag Officer Sea Training with a couple or three AS365N Dauphins - I suspect most of the company aircrew with this particular contract are probably ex RAF/FAA/AAC trained or maybe there is the odd commercially trained pilot with thousands of hours behind and good at offshore / underslung load working on this. But IIRC, the FOST contract does not only cover delivering the beans to bullets when the flotilla is off the coast of Cornwall - one of my colleagues (I used to work in offshore helicopter maintenance) amongst many who worked for BI mentioned there were other tasks like tactical dropping of 'opposition' troops on a warship deck during NATO exercises.
I also heard a story about one particular NATO ex where a Daupihn pilot nearly got hit by a dummy missile round.....

Probably your best bet is to fly for the airlines, grab a couple of thousand hours as F/O then captaincy in say Airbus A320/330/340 etc and if AirTanker is still kicking around in a a deacde or so thus advertising for pilots who are selected to undergo a RAF VRT Officer course......

Though one question begs curioisty you mentioned there was a medical condition......which would preclude you from being RAF aircrew........??? I am guessing the Airtanker crews would have to undergo RAF medical even though they probably have Class One Medicals...already...

cheers and good luck with completing your ATPL

[Onceapilot]

chopper 2004,
I feel your reply about AirTanker and AAR Ops is a little unbalanced. There might be opportunities for some Civilian crew, but not in the way you describe.

OAP

[DITYIWAHP]

If you have the aptitude to know when to start a turn that will trash a formation's join on your aircraft then you are more than capable of joining AirTanker...

[MSOCS]

...or how to find, and then fly into, the only CB within 100 square miles, right as you're about to contact.

(PS - all in jest of course!)

[chopper2004]

Originally Posted by Onceapilot

chopper 2004,
I feel your reply about AirTanker and AAR Ops is a little unbalanced. There might be opportunities for some Civilian crew, but not in the way you describe.

OAP

Hi Once,

My apologies - , I was attempting to simplify what I perceived of AirTanker operations.

Cheers

[Timelord]

Last time I had anything to do with Cobham / FRA the captains were indeed ex military and mostly fast jet. Some of the FOs however were low hours FATPLs - they're cheap!

[Door Slider]

The RAF fly AAR sorties not Air Tanker, the Mission Systems Operators are RAF NCA drawn from other fleets with a couple of 'Navs'.

Air Tanker fly the Falklands schedule and some MoD Air Transport with the RAF flying the vast majority but sometimes with help from the Air Tanker sponsored reservists.

Yes the voyager dispenses fuel in less than desirable locations!

[ShotOne]

Opinions are free here but not where someone's after specific advice. Chopper you've been wide of the mark on several counts, not just in tweaking the AAR community. Air Tanker pilots will spend much of their time flying scheduled routes with their partner airline as well as Falklands. I'm not clear why anyone would follow the career path you suggest. Moving to Air Tanker or FR from the left seat of most airlines would involve a major drop in pay and conditions

[wiggy]

Originally Posted by ShotOne

I'm not clear why anyone would follow the career path you suggest. Moving to Air Tanker or FR from the left seat of most airlines would involve a major drop in pay and conditions

Exactly, as someone who did military flying (FJ) and now does civil flying with an airline I agree.

To the OP, 7779:

You'll never beat proper military flying for the "buzz" and satisfaction but unless one of these MOD jobs is the only option post ATPL, or sadly you end up being laid off by an airline in the future, I'd say planning to go from line airline flying to flying a biz jet or an A3xx for MOD could a risky long term career move for I assume a relative youngster.

Given how airlines promote, hire/fire, pay scales, i.e. the dreaded seniority system that most still employ IMHO you would be very very badly advised to voluntarily leave a good airline job, even as a new P2, simply to satisfy the urge to fly something military'ish.

[CAEBr]

Just don't tell Airtanker that you're keen on photography.....