V22 and Nav Lights
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V22 and Nav Lights
Last night two V22s passed my house some 10 minutes apart. It was about 2200, pitch dark with no significant moon. They were flying at an estimated 500 - 1000ft.
Neither appeared to be showing Nav lights though. The first had a dim, very dim white light perhaps at the rear as I could see it as the aircraft flew away but nothing else, the other had the same but the rotors were illuminated in a ghostly green, much stronger at the tips so it looked like a big green-outlined horizontal figure of 8 flying along, again with a dim white light near the aft end. (If it was nav light illuminating the back side of the rotors I'd have seen one green, one red right? I didn't, both were green) Really quite spectacular.
Low flying at night with no nav lights seems a somewhat hazardous thing to do - so what's the reason? Does NVG training require nav lights off? They were 10 mins apart so not formation flying.
What caused the green glow on the second one? It wasn't there on the first - and deffo no nav lights. Electrostatics? That strange piezo effect in dust that Chinooks have demonstrated - tho it wasn't notably dusty in E Anglia last night?
Neither appeared to be showing Nav lights though. The first had a dim, very dim white light perhaps at the rear as I could see it as the aircraft flew away but nothing else, the other had the same but the rotors were illuminated in a ghostly green, much stronger at the tips so it looked like a big green-outlined horizontal figure of 8 flying along, again with a dim white light near the aft end. (If it was nav light illuminating the back side of the rotors I'd have seen one green, one red right? I didn't, both were green) Really quite spectacular.
Low flying at night with no nav lights seems a somewhat hazardous thing to do - so what's the reason? Does NVG training require nav lights off? They were 10 mins apart so not formation flying.
What caused the green glow on the second one? It wasn't there on the first - and deffo no nav lights. Electrostatics? That strange piezo effect in dust that Chinooks have demonstrated - tho it wasn't notably dusty in E Anglia last night?
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V-22s have a green "nav" light on each of the Blade Tips, I assume they can be turned on/off when the need arises. I,ve seen loads of piccies taken in low light conditions with the Green Tip lights on and they can easily be confused with static effects.
Have a look here, https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=V-...w=1920&bih=881
Have a look here, https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=V-...w=1920&bih=881
They still have regular red and green nav lights (NVG compatible) mounted on the engine nacelles. They don't emit much light downwards but appear normal when viewed from the side or slightly above. The blade tip lights operate independently of the nav lights.
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Aha! So one had tip lights on - that's exactly what I saw - spectacular. But why no nav lights? Is this something the military do often? Why? If they'd had even dim nav lights I'd have seen reflection off some of the structure and there was none whatsoever.
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Aha! So one had tip lights on - that's exactly what I saw - spectacular. But why do that with no nav lights? Is flying with no lights something the military does often? Why? If they'd had even dim nav lights I'd have seen reflection off some of the structure and there was none whatsoever.
I once stood at the edge of Keevil airfield, and listened as 2 C130K's landed and offloaded on a dark night.
I say listened as I didn't see either aircraft until they were on the ground and I walked (following the direction of their engine noise) towards where they were parked!
I say listened as I didn't see either aircraft until they were on the ground and I walked (following the direction of their engine noise) towards where they were parked!
Wageslave , It's not just the military . The Air Navigation Order gives civilian pilots discretion to operate outside of the Rules of the Air for safety reasons .
In my day , out of Nairobi or Mombassa ; it was '' Positive climb '' . ''Gear up , ALL lights OFF '' , inc. cabin . Up until 15,000 ' AGL . Given that was the max height of Manpads as we understood it .
Latest Notam valid from earlier this summer , might put that height up significantly ..
Q) EGXX/QROXX/IV/NBO/W/000/999/5218N01451W999
B) FROM: 16/08/26 14:13C) TO: 16/11/11 23:59
E) HAZARDOUS SITUATION IN KENYA. POTENTIAL RISK TO AVIATION OVERFLYING KENYAN AIRSPACE AND TERRITORY FIR AT LESS THAN 25000FT ABOVE GROUND LEVEL (AGL) FROM DEDICATED ANTI-AIRCRAFT WEAPONRY. OPERATORS ARE ADVISED TO TAKE THIS INFORMATION INTO ACCOUNT IN THEIR OWN RISK ASSESSMENTS AND ROUTEING DECISIONS. CONTACT UK DEPARTMENT FOR TRANSPORT (+44) (0)20 7944 4426 OR (+44) (0)207 944 5999 OUT OF HOURS. ON EXPIRY OF THIS NOTAM, DETAILS WILL BE INCLUDED IN THE UK AIP ENR 1.1. 16-08-0395/AS6 LOWER: SFC
UPPER: UNL
rgds condor
In my day , out of Nairobi or Mombassa ; it was '' Positive climb '' . ''Gear up , ALL lights OFF '' , inc. cabin . Up until 15,000 ' AGL . Given that was the max height of Manpads as we understood it .
Latest Notam valid from earlier this summer , might put that height up significantly ..
Q) EGXX/QROXX/IV/NBO/W/000/999/5218N01451W999
B) FROM: 16/08/26 14:13C) TO: 16/11/11 23:59
E) HAZARDOUS SITUATION IN KENYA. POTENTIAL RISK TO AVIATION OVERFLYING KENYAN AIRSPACE AND TERRITORY FIR AT LESS THAN 25000FT ABOVE GROUND LEVEL (AGL) FROM DEDICATED ANTI-AIRCRAFT WEAPONRY. OPERATORS ARE ADVISED TO TAKE THIS INFORMATION INTO ACCOUNT IN THEIR OWN RISK ASSESSMENTS AND ROUTEING DECISIONS. CONTACT UK DEPARTMENT FOR TRANSPORT (+44) (0)20 7944 4426 OR (+44) (0)207 944 5999 OUT OF HOURS. ON EXPIRY OF THIS NOTAM, DETAILS WILL BE INCLUDED IN THE UK AIP ENR 1.1. 16-08-0395/AS6 LOWER: SFC
UPPER: UNL
rgds condor
Thread Starter
I can't imagine any air safety reason to be flying around E Anglia without nav lights. Manpads are in short supply around here...
One had his tip lights on so being invisible clearly wasn't part of the game.
One had his tip lights on so being invisible clearly wasn't part of the game.
ORAC , bootiful shot sir , looks like Sheringham / Cromer beaches .
Wageslave , up in the Hebs and Northern Isles on dark stormy nights we'd have anything that flashed turned off as we groped for the Rwy on Non-Precision Approaches in rain , snow or sleet .
Alternately they could have been u/s .
'Tho perhaps I should have ''declared an interest'' , being a 'Naarfick Boi' , and a Marshalls Brat , commencing training with a Special Flying Award at Cambridge and over East Angular 45 years ago.
On that vein , perhaps those crews had heard about my sister ; and deffo did not want to be spotted .
Or being near the border with the nights drawing in ; those Lincolnshire Poachers are dab hands with rifles or shotguns and never mind the game .
Sadly here it's only Hercs and Wokkas sweeping our chimney in the dark [ they sometimes seem to have nav lights off , but cannot swear to it ]. 'Tho the Navy's Merlins and Wildcats are getting out a bit more now , and might keep us soot free in the future .
rgds condor ,
Wageslave , up in the Hebs and Northern Isles on dark stormy nights we'd have anything that flashed turned off as we groped for the Rwy on Non-Precision Approaches in rain , snow or sleet .
Alternately they could have been u/s .
'Tho perhaps I should have ''declared an interest'' , being a 'Naarfick Boi' , and a Marshalls Brat , commencing training with a Special Flying Award at Cambridge and over East Angular 45 years ago.
On that vein , perhaps those crews had heard about my sister ; and deffo did not want to be spotted .
Or being near the border with the nights drawing in ; those Lincolnshire Poachers are dab hands with rifles or shotguns and never mind the game .
Sadly here it's only Hercs and Wokkas sweeping our chimney in the dark [ they sometimes seem to have nav lights off , but cannot swear to it ]. 'Tho the Navy's Merlins and Wildcats are getting out a bit more now , and might keep us soot free in the future .
rgds condor ,
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