Rear Admiral Parry does not hold back re the engine problems on the latest destroyers
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Rear Admiral Parry does not hold back re the engine problems on the latest destroyers
In fact he gives them both barrels over the failings of the Government
Labour saddled Navy ships with dodgy engines
Rebooted the thread to correct my Spelling issues.
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Labour saddled Navy ships with dodgy engines
Rebooted the thread to correct my Spelling issues.
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alfred_the_great
His name is Parry.
Heathrow Harry
Damned if you do, damned if you don't
His name is Parry.
Heathrow Harry
Damned if you do, damned if you don't
If they'd bought American the same people would have been moaning about loss of Britsh jobs and British skills
PS the engines don't cost "about £1 Bn apeice " - but the ships do....................
Current status of T45s and why they are all alongside.
HMS Daring – test-fired Aster missile 11/7/16. Due to deploy to Gulf soon?
HMS Diamond – completed Operational Sea Training. Has just returned from visit to Ireland and operating in Scottish waters.
HMS Dragon completed major refit, recommissioned 8/7/16 and has just returned from visit to Amsterdam.
HMS Defender – undergoing routine maintenance after returning home on 7th July from successful 9-month deployment to the Gulf.
HMS Duncan – Completed Gulf deployment last year. Been in UK waters and led Jutland 100 commemorations in May. Now in refit.
HMS Daring – test-fired Aster missile 11/7/16. Due to deploy to Gulf soon?
HMS Diamond – completed Operational Sea Training. Has just returned from visit to Ireland and operating in Scottish waters.
HMS Dragon completed major refit, recommissioned 8/7/16 and has just returned from visit to Amsterdam.
HMS Defender – undergoing routine maintenance after returning home on 7th July from successful 9-month deployment to the Gulf.
HMS Duncan – Completed Gulf deployment last year. Been in UK waters and led Jutland 100 commemorations in May. Now in refit.
Jimlad1,
You missed one..,
You missed one..,
HMS Dauntless
Hasn't Dauntless been reduced to harbour training ship status or something along those lines? If I recall it was around Easter time and due to manning as well technical issues.
Edited: having just checked, Philip Dunne, former Min DP, seemed to suggest this harbour training status appears to be a permanent fixture for ships about to go into re-fit, which means Dauntless will be non-operational for a while yet before the same happens to another vessel.
//https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/hms-dauntless-temporarily-reduced-harbour-training-ship/
Only a politician could spin spending in excess of £1Bn on a warship and then parking it alongside as a training aid as a good thing! I know the rules of the game are to fight for your own service, but frankly what's been done to the RN is shocking from an operational perspective.
Edited: having just checked, Philip Dunne, former Min DP, seemed to suggest this harbour training status appears to be a permanent fixture for ships about to go into re-fit, which means Dauntless will be non-operational for a while yet before the same happens to another vessel.
//https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/hms-dauntless-temporarily-reduced-harbour-training-ship/
Only a politician could spin spending in excess of £1Bn on a warship and then parking it alongside as a training aid as a good thing! I know the rules of the game are to fight for your own service, but frankly what's been done to the RN is shocking from an operational perspective.
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From Wikipedia for what it's worth . .
The Northrop Grumman intercooler as fitted in the WR-21, on Type 45 destroyers, were not designed to operate in water temperatures beyond 30c. Rolls-Royce said that the NG intercooler had been built as specified, but that conditions in the Middle East were not "in line with these specs". The House of Commons defence committee had in 2009 warned that "persistent overoptimism and underestimation of the technical challenges combined with inappropriate commercial arrangements" would lead to increased costs. The Northrop Grumman intercooler of the first Type 45 destroyer, HMS Daring, failed in the mid-Atlantic in 2010 and had to be repaired in Canada, with further repairs for intercooler failure in 2012 in Bahrain. The Type 45's pioneering Integrated Electric Propulsion (IEP) system uses two WR-21s and two Wartsila 2MW diesel generators to power everything on board, including weapons systems in addition to propulsion and other functions, leaving the ships vulnerable to "total electric failure". The Ministry of Defence said: "The Type 45 was designed for world-wide operations, from sub-Arctic to extreme tropical environments, and continues to operate effectively in the Gulf and the South Atlantic all year round."[6]
The Rolls Royce turbines themselves are extremely well-designed, but the Northrop Grumman intercooler has a design flaw causing the turbines to fail occasionally. [7]
The Rolls Royce turbines themselves are extremely well-designed, but the Northrop Grumman intercooler has a design flaw causing the turbines to fail occasionally. [7]
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As I read some articles on these intercoolers, including articles such as: -
"The turbines are of a sound design but have an intercooler-recuperator that recovers heat from the exhaust and recycles it into the engine, making it more fuel-efficient and reducing the ship’s thermal signature. Unfortunately the intercooler unit has a major design flaw and causes the GTs to fail occasionally. When this happens, the electrical load on the diesel generators can become too great and they ‘trip out’, leaving the ship with no source of power or propulsion."
I do wonder why the intercoolers are not just removed from the system and replaced with a bit of trunking, at least in the interim, it must better to have electric power reliably, even if you have to refuel more often and your thermal signature is increased, or is that just too simple a solution.
"The turbines are of a sound design but have an intercooler-recuperator that recovers heat from the exhaust and recycles it into the engine, making it more fuel-efficient and reducing the ship’s thermal signature. Unfortunately the intercooler unit has a major design flaw and causes the GTs to fail occasionally. When this happens, the electrical load on the diesel generators can become too great and they ‘trip out’, leaving the ship with no source of power or propulsion."
I do wonder why the intercoolers are not just removed from the system and replaced with a bit of trunking, at least in the interim, it must better to have electric power reliably, even if you have to refuel more often and your thermal signature is increased, or is that just too simple a solution.
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Maybe we should ask our boy racers - they are the experts in intercoolers that can get eleventy bazillion horsepower out of a 1.2 corsa
You'd think that they could have thought about some extra cooling by a medium more suited to it, water maybe....
You'd think that they could have thought about some extra cooling by a medium more suited to it, water maybe....
The Northrop Grumman intercooler as fitted in the WR-21, on Type 45 destroyers, were not designed to operate in water temperatures beyond 30c.
The Northrop Grumman intercooler of the first Type 45 destroyer, HMS Daring, failed in the mid-Atlantic in 2010 and had to be repaired in Canada
GR
Wait a sec, no flucking steam.
Welcome to the 21st century, and about the last 30-40 years in maritime propulsion for corvette/frigate/destroyer class combatants.
returning under it's own steam?
2 × Rolls-Royce WR-21 gas turbines, 21.5 MW (28,800 shp) each
2 × Wärtsilä 12V200 diesel generators, 2 MW (2,700 shp) each
2 × Wärtsilä 12V200 diesel generators, 2 MW (2,700 shp) each
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ships engines
I spent 6 weeks on a freigher a couple of ears ago.
130000 tons deadweight, speed on test 25+ knots.
Engine 10 cylinder 100000hp diesel. I am sure that you
could cool down the diesel exhaust somehow, intercoolers ?
Would it be better to go back to such low tech that actually works.
Mind you we did break down in the Indian Ocean, but that was
repairable by the crew in a few hours. actually the vessel had spares
(cylinders, pistons, etc) on board to fix more or less anything. I did ask
and even a cylinder change at sea was possible
John
130000 tons deadweight, speed on test 25+ knots.
Engine 10 cylinder 100000hp diesel. I am sure that you
could cool down the diesel exhaust somehow, intercoolers ?
Would it be better to go back to such low tech that actually works.
Mind you we did break down in the Indian Ocean, but that was
repairable by the crew in a few hours. actually the vessel had spares
(cylinders, pistons, etc) on board to fix more or less anything. I did ask
and even a cylinder change at sea was possible
John
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Maybe we should ask our boy racers - they are the experts in intercoolers that can get eleventy bazillion horsepower out of a 1.2 corsa
The System we are talking about is not about getting gazillion horsepower, it is about huge fuel economy improvements, something boy racers also know zip about!
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I spent 6 weeks on a freigher a couple of ears ago.
130000 tons deadweight, speed on test 25+ knots.
Engine 10 cylinder 100000hp diesel. I am sure that you
could cool down the diesel exhaust somehow, intercoolers ?
Would it be better to go back to such low tech that actually works.
Mind you we did break down in the Indian Ocean, but that was
repairable by the crew in a few hours. actually the vessel had spares
(cylinders, pistons, etc) on board to fix more or less anything. I did ask
and even a cylinder change at sea was possible
John
130000 tons deadweight, speed on test 25+ knots.
Engine 10 cylinder 100000hp diesel. I am sure that you
could cool down the diesel exhaust somehow, intercoolers ?
Would it be better to go back to such low tech that actually works.
Mind you we did break down in the Indian Ocean, but that was
repairable by the crew in a few hours. actually the vessel had spares
(cylinders, pistons, etc) on board to fix more or less anything. I did ask
and even a cylinder change at sea was possible
John
On the off-chance you are, do you also suggest that we swap all the Typhoon engines for high bypass fans from Airbus and Boeing as well? After all, they are far more reliable and get much better mpg.
