UK Nuclear deterrent already scrapped...
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I am surprised May hasn't countered Widow Twanky's statement in the press that she has and will hold a veto over the issue.
It would scotch that once and for all and make Widow Twanky's position look increasingly desperate.
It would scotch that once and for all and make Widow Twanky's position look increasingly desperate.
A thought that just crossed my mind: who would trust a politician not to use the deterrent when the definition of a politician lying is that he does so when he moves his lips.
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Regarding the letter of last resort, of course we don't know what anyu of them actually said. May might say No and Cbin might say Yes.
Then there is the question of chain of command. According to Hennessey the AOCinC Bomber Command was empowered to launch the V-Force in the event of loss of contact with the PM. Of course once scrambled the Force then had to get a release authorisation; with SLBC launch implies release.
However is it possible that CinC Fleet could release in similar circumstances? Does he also have a letter of last resort?
The elephant however is what constitutes last resort. Loss of comms alone is not proof positive of nuclear strike. First use, at sea, is not proof either.
Then there is the question of chain of command. According to Hennessey the AOCinC Bomber Command was empowered to launch the V-Force in the event of loss of contact with the PM. Of course once scrambled the Force then had to get a release authorisation; with SLBC launch implies release.
However is it possible that CinC Fleet could release in similar circumstances? Does he also have a letter of last resort?
The elephant however is what constitutes last resort. Loss of comms alone is not proof positive of nuclear strike. First use, at sea, is not proof either.
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The military commander may have had that authority in a situation caused by a breakdown in communication. But if the PM had expressly denied permission for a strike, that would be a different situation entirely.
Regarding the letter of last resort, of course we don't know what anyu of them actually said. May might say No and Cbin might say Yes.
Then there is the question of chain of command. According to Hennessey the AOCinC Bomber Command was empowered to launch the V-Force in the event of loss of contact with the PM. Of course once scrambled the Force then had to get a release authorisation; with SLBC launch implies release.
However is it possible that CinC Fleet could release in similar circumstances? Does he also have a letter of last resort?
The elephant however is what constitutes last resort. Loss of comms alone is not proof positive of nuclear strike. First use, at sea, is not proof either.
Then there is the question of chain of command. According to Hennessey the AOCinC Bomber Command was empowered to launch the V-Force in the event of loss of contact with the PM. Of course once scrambled the Force then had to get a release authorisation; with SLBC launch implies release.
However is it possible that CinC Fleet could release in similar circumstances? Does he also have a letter of last resort?
The elephant however is what constitutes last resort. Loss of comms alone is not proof positive of nuclear strike. First use, at sea, is not proof either.
Perhaps they will listen out for Radio 4 PN?
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111, only if they are in the Devil's Hole. Broadcast to the SPA might be a bit iffy.
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Shot one, the Nelson touch? Forgot to clear his in tray?
The only logical option, should Cbin have the power, it to recall all boats and lay them up.
The only logical option, should Cbin have the power, it to recall all boats and lay them up.
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I'm not sure the Nelson touch extends to starting your own nuclear war, PN!
Re "lay the boats up.." That would actually be more sensible and principled than Mr Corbyns actual proposal which is to spend a squillion £'s building them to keep his union comrades happy, but state they'll never be used.
Re "lay the boats up.." That would actually be more sensible and principled than Mr Corbyns actual proposal which is to spend a squillion £'s building them to keep his union comrades happy, but state they'll never be used.
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ShowTime, not starting, just not left at the starting gate.
Certainly in the V-Force, when all around was toast, we would have aborted if we did not get the go message. I have no idea if the CinC had a letter of last resort. According to Hennessey he certainly had the authority.
TTN, it was the Light Service on 200kc/s. Radio 4 Long Wave is now on 198kHz
Certainly in the V-Force, when all around was toast, we would have aborted if we did not get the go message. I have no idea if the CinC had a letter of last resort. According to Hennessey he certainly had the authority.
TTN, it was the Light Service on 200kc/s. Radio 4 Long Wave is now on 198kHz
PN IIRC from Hennessey, the PM had 2 nuclear deputies....if war was looking inevitable, these would be identified to the Joint Chiefs and CinC Bomber Command to notify them of their identities.
Should the PM be killed, then one of the deputies was authorised to order to release the V Force-if contact was lost with both deputies (one in London and one at Turnstile) then the CinC Bomber Command could authorise release of the bombers to their targets.
No letters of last resort prior to the Polaris boats as far as I recall-its been a while since I read Hennessey though...
It would be interesting to know the Chain of Command now and whether Mrs May has any nuclear deputies-especially as her letters are still in number 10 (possibly) or only in the safes of the boats not on patrol....
Should the PM be killed, then one of the deputies was authorised to order to release the V Force-if contact was lost with both deputies (one in London and one at Turnstile) then the CinC Bomber Command could authorise release of the bombers to their targets.
No letters of last resort prior to the Polaris boats as far as I recall-its been a while since I read Hennessey though...
It would be interesting to know the Chain of Command now and whether Mrs May has any nuclear deputies-especially as her letters are still in number 10 (possibly) or only in the safes of the boats not on patrol....
Last edited by Treble one; 20th Jul 2016 at 20:48.
Much of interest in these posts. The one thing I am missing is a realistic scenario that might cause us to use the deterrent. During the Cold War it was absolutely clear why we needed nuclear weapons. Now it seems less obvious. I find it interesting that we think we need a deterrent when Germany, Spain, Italy etc don't. Are we sure that it is a deterrent we need or a status symbol to shore up our international reputation?
Retreating to my shelter!!!
Retreating to my shelter!!!
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Kintyred, first it is easier to retain than restart after a gap. The 10 years without a maritime aircraft is a case on point. Secondly the replacement is decades away yet.
The Cold War ended a quarter century ago, who can predict what will happen, or have happened , in 25 years.
Status symbol? Germany, Spain, Italy? We remain a Global player, as is France. We have a permanent seat on the UNSC, as does France.
You might ask why we have that UNSC seat; why we are a Global Player; why we do what we do.
The Cold War ended a quarter century ago, who can predict what will happen, or have happened , in 25 years.
Status symbol? Germany, Spain, Italy? We remain a Global player, as is France. We have a permanent seat on the UNSC, as does France.
You might ask why we have that UNSC seat; why we are a Global Player; why we do what we do.
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The fall out from Chernobyl proved that if it had gone bang most of Europe would have collected some Ready Brek glow.
The Cold War ended a quarter century ago, who can predict what will happen, or have happened , in 25 years.
"At the first battle in recorded history, Jericho, it was not envisaged that the main assault on the city's defences would be made by musicians!"
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Well, we now where the one of our subs at sea is/was
UK Nuclear Sub Damaged In Gibraltar Collision
That's going to need a whole bucket full of filler.
UK Nuclear Sub Damaged In Gibraltar Collision
That's going to need a whole bucket full of filler.
Last edited by NutLoose; 21st Jul 2016 at 12:17.
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