Wg Cdr Arthur Gill, OBE, DFC
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ValMORNA,
Very probably. The PRs earned their gongs. Adrian Warburton was the RAF's most decorated one (played by Alec Guinness in "Malta Story"), and there have been good Posts from a Colonel Bayles (?) of the USAF, who also flew PR Spitfires, but I've forgotten the references.
Danny.
Very probably. The PRs earned their gongs. Adrian Warburton was the RAF's most decorated one (played by Alec Guinness in "Malta Story"), and there have been good Posts from a Colonel Bayles (?) of the USAF, who also flew PR Spitfires, but I've forgotten the references.
Danny.
Thread Starter
Quote:
"Small quibble about the thread title - that should be Wing Commander Arthur Gill, OBE, DFC. Orders take precedence over decorations, with the exception of the Victoria Cross which invariably precedes all other awards."
Thanks for that, T-TN! Must admit I did wonder which was the correct way round. Is there also a protocol on when to abbreviate the rank?
CS
"Small quibble about the thread title - that should be Wing Commander Arthur Gill, OBE, DFC. Orders take precedence over decorations, with the exception of the Victoria Cross which invariably precedes all other awards."
Thanks for that, T-TN! Must admit I did wonder which was the correct way round. Is there also a protocol on when to abbreviate the rank?
CS
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ValMORNA
I heard that he was on a recce sortie, came across an enemy aircraft and shot it down.
I believe Arthur Gill's DFC may have had something to do with a PR Spitfire but have no details.
I heard that he was on a recce sortie, came across an enemy aircraft and shot it down.
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It's not as simple as all that !
SirPeterHardingsLovechild (your #26),
Always believed myself that all PR Spitfires flew unarmed (to save space and weight for extra fuel). Chap's mixing him up with Warburton (in a Maryland [?] who did shoot down an enemy - or one of his gunners did), on a PR trip, I thought.
But it ain't as simple as that (it never is !) Googled (and was soon in deep over my head).
The following list of quotes is not exhaustive:
RAF BBMF - Reconnaissance Spitfire and Ray Holmes
[quote]
RAF Reconnaissance Aircraft - Airrecce
Supermarine Spitfire operational history - Wikipedia, the free ...
So yer pays yer penny and yer takes yer choice !
Danny.
PS: For a stirring tale of "Un PR Pilote malgré lui" (sorry, Molière !) try my p.135 #2684 on "Gaining a RAF Pilot's Brevet in WWII).
...ValMORNA
Quote:
...I believe Arthur Gill's DFC may have had something to do with a PR Spitfire but have no details. I heard that he was on a recce sortie, came across an enemy aircraft and shot it down...
Quote:
...I believe Arthur Gill's DFC may have had something to do with a PR Spitfire but have no details. I heard that he was on a recce sortie, came across an enemy aircraft and shot it down...
But it ain't as simple as that (it never is !) Googled (and was soon in deep over my head).
The following list of quotes is not exhaustive:
RAF BBMF - Reconnaissance Spitfire and Ray Holmes
[quote]
...The Spitfire PR Mk XIX was completely unarmed, carrying additional fuel in place of the guns of the Spitfire PR XIX on the ground during wartime fighter versions giving it an operational range of 1,500 miles...
...The PR Mk ID (PR Mk IV) was produced as a super long range version, both wing leading edges were fitted with 66 gallon fuel tanks and the total fuel load including the 30 gallons behind the pilot was 218 gallons. Nicknamed 'The Bowser', it had a range of 1,750 miles.
The PR Mk IG (PR MK VII) carried the standard machine guns of the Mk Ia.....fitted with only a fuel tank behind the pilot, it was limited by its range.
The PR Mk XI was produced in greater numbers than any other PR variant, with over 470 produced in total. It was based on the Mk IX fuselage, but with the extra fuel tanks of the standard PR variants as well as wing mounted tanks. It entered service in the summer of 1943.
The PR Mk XIII was a low level reconnaissance fighter, converted from old Mk I, Mk V and PR Mk VII. It carried four machine guns for defensive armament, which somewhat limited its range. It went into service in 1943
A number of Spitfire fighter aircraft were fitted with cameras, one version being the FR Mk XIV. It carried two F24 cameras mounted vertically in the rear fuselage and another F24 oblique camera which could be mounted either side of the aircraft aft of the cockpit.
The armament for this version was two 20mm cannons and four .303 machines-gun in the outer bays...
The PR Mk IG (PR MK VII) carried the standard machine guns of the Mk Ia.....fitted with only a fuel tank behind the pilot, it was limited by its range.
The PR Mk XI was produced in greater numbers than any other PR variant, with over 470 produced in total. It was based on the Mk IX fuselage, but with the extra fuel tanks of the standard PR variants as well as wing mounted tanks. It entered service in the summer of 1943.
The PR Mk XIII was a low level reconnaissance fighter, converted from old Mk I, Mk V and PR Mk VII. It carried four machine guns for defensive armament, which somewhat limited its range. It went into service in 1943
A number of Spitfire fighter aircraft were fitted with cameras, one version being the FR Mk XIV. It carried two F24 cameras mounted vertically in the rear fuselage and another F24 oblique camera which could be mounted either side of the aircraft aft of the cockpit.
The armament for this version was two 20mm cannons and four .303 machines-gun in the outer bays...
... For example, the Spitfire was a pioneer in the role of the unarmed, photo reconnaissance (P.R.) aircraft that relied on high speed and high altitude to avoid detection and attack.[5]
The PR Mk XI was the first version of the Spitfire to be built specifically as a photoreconnaissance (PR) aircraft and started replacing all of the earlier conversions of Mk Is, IIs and Vs from mid-1943...
The PR Mk XI was the first version of the Spitfire to be built specifically as a photoreconnaissance (PR) aircraft and started replacing all of the earlier conversions of Mk Is, IIs and Vs from mid-1943...
Danny.
PS: For a stirring tale of "Un PR Pilote malgré lui" (sorry, Molière !) try my p.135 #2684 on "Gaining a RAF Pilot's Brevet in WWII).
Gentleman Aviator
It looks as if Gill's DFC was for his time on 84.
He was in command - as an Acting Sqn Ldr - from October '42 to September '44.
His DFC was Gazetted - still as an A/Sqn Ldr RAFVR - in November '44, in the same list as another A/Sqn Ldr RAFVR - one Neil Cameron of 258 Sqn (Spitfires at the time I think)
Like most wartime DFCs, there is no further detail published in the Gazette, but - given the timing - it would seem highly likely to refer to his 84 Sqn time. Indeed, the Gazette entry refers to him as 84 Sqn, although he handed over command - to one G R Plumb - in September '44. Did they give DFCs as end of tour BZs as they now do with OBEs?
Still looking, but one would need to go to TNA for more details methinks.
And I must - as a ukulele player - add my favourite piece of Arthur Gill trivia. In the 1938 George Formby film "It's in the Air", Gill was "stunt double" for Formby in the flying sequences..........
He was in command - as an Acting Sqn Ldr - from October '42 to September '44.
His DFC was Gazetted - still as an A/Sqn Ldr RAFVR - in November '44, in the same list as another A/Sqn Ldr RAFVR - one Neil Cameron of 258 Sqn (Spitfires at the time I think)
Like most wartime DFCs, there is no further detail published in the Gazette, but - given the timing - it would seem highly likely to refer to his 84 Sqn time. Indeed, the Gazette entry refers to him as 84 Sqn, although he handed over command - to one G R Plumb - in September '44. Did they give DFCs as end of tour BZs as they now do with OBEs?
Still looking, but one would need to go to TNA for more details methinks.
And I must - as a ukulele player - add my favourite piece of Arthur Gill trivia. In the 1938 George Formby film "It's in the Air", Gill was "stunt double" for Formby in the flying sequences..........
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Hello ValMORNA, Danny42C, teeteringhead
I merely expanded a little bit on ValMORNA's post. I never said that he got the DFC for it. ValMORNA said he may...
Most of my hearsay (albeit from the horse's mouth) were alcohol fuelled nights down Chris Kebab during the 84 Sqn 75th Anniversary visit by the Association at Akrotiri.
Arthur Gill was present, and also a Jap POW survivor, (I think his name was Sam)
Come to think of it, my info isn't even "horse's mouth" and more likely to be from any random old codger at the table.
So here's my other 3rd hand hearsay snippet:-
The fabled escape from Java to Australia, was reported as the CO and 11 crew finding a lifeboat and sailing for 44 days.
The version that I heard was that 2 boats were found. The ground crew had one, and the aircrew had the other. The aircrew quickly badly damaged their boat, so they turfed the ground crew out of theirs and took it. The ground crew were left to their fate.
I merely expanded a little bit on ValMORNA's post. I never said that he got the DFC for it. ValMORNA said he may...
Most of my hearsay (albeit from the horse's mouth) were alcohol fuelled nights down Chris Kebab during the 84 Sqn 75th Anniversary visit by the Association at Akrotiri.
Arthur Gill was present, and also a Jap POW survivor, (I think his name was Sam)
Come to think of it, my info isn't even "horse's mouth" and more likely to be from any random old codger at the table.
So here's my other 3rd hand hearsay snippet:-
The fabled escape from Java to Australia, was reported as the CO and 11 crew finding a lifeboat and sailing for 44 days.
The version that I heard was that 2 boats were found. The ground crew had one, and the aircrew had the other. The aircrew quickly badly damaged their boat, so they turfed the ground crew out of theirs and took it. The ground crew were left to their fate.
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teeteringhead (your #28),
You've really got me foxed ! The D.Tel is quite specific:
AFAIK, the Vengeance squadrons in India never operated anywhere except from the Arakan and Assam.
8 (IAF) was in the Arakan from 12 December, 1943 onward, and I can only assume that 84 (RAF) joined us there (on one or another of a score of "kutcha" strips which we were constantly moving between), but I have no knowledge of their arrival or whereabouts (as I was 'hors de combat' myself from 24 February 1944 until 12 July, when I had a couple of "refresher" flights (still in Arakan). I would guess that the monsoon would have broken certainly by the end of May. This would have put a stop to any dive bombing until September at the very earliest.
So what about "On July 15 the Squadron flew its last sortie, when Gill led 12 aircraft in an attack on an ammunition dump at Le-u" ? For a start, I don't believe the '12' (everybody was using box-of-six all the time by then). Perhaps he led two separate boxes (as was done on my first 'op', six from 82 and six from 110).
Then how would a VV get from the Arakan (all the strips were close to the coast), and I have used Cox's Bazar (very little more West than any Arakan strip) as one leg to get to Hopin (which is near Le-u) as the other to get a distance of 378 miles....Impossible - we haven't the range ! And what about the monsoon ?
It's quite beyond me ! And it begs the question: what were 84 doing with their VVS before February, 1944 (having come out at the end of 1942, like all the other ex-Blenheim squadrons ?) This we do know (Peter C. Smith: "Vengeance"): anti-submarine patrols, from Ceylon and the Madras area.
As for his DFC, whatever he got it for, it wouldn't have been in a Vengeance. PR ? - very likely. Your:
I believe many of the Bomber Command DFCs/DFMs were "survivor's awards" after a full 'tour' of ops. And richly deserved, too, IMHO !
Danny.
You've really got me foxed ! The D.Tel is quite specific:
..."The Squadron flew its first operation on February 16, 1944, when Gill led 14 of his aircraft to attack Japanese positions in the Arakan...On July 15 the Squadron flew its last sortie, when Gill led 12 aircraft in an attack on an ammunition dump at Le-u...
8 (IAF) was in the Arakan from 12 December, 1943 onward, and I can only assume that 84 (RAF) joined us there (on one or another of a score of "kutcha" strips which we were constantly moving between), but I have no knowledge of their arrival or whereabouts (as I was 'hors de combat' myself from 24 February 1944 until 12 July, when I had a couple of "refresher" flights (still in Arakan). I would guess that the monsoon would have broken certainly by the end of May. This would have put a stop to any dive bombing until September at the very earliest.
So what about "On July 15 the Squadron flew its last sortie, when Gill led 12 aircraft in an attack on an ammunition dump at Le-u" ? For a start, I don't believe the '12' (everybody was using box-of-six all the time by then). Perhaps he led two separate boxes (as was done on my first 'op', six from 82 and six from 110).
Then how would a VV get from the Arakan (all the strips were close to the coast), and I have used Cox's Bazar (very little more West than any Arakan strip) as one leg to get to Hopin (which is near Le-u) as the other to get a distance of 378 miles....Impossible - we haven't the range ! And what about the monsoon ?
It's quite beyond me ! And it begs the question: what were 84 doing with their VVS before February, 1944 (having come out at the end of 1942, like all the other ex-Blenheim squadrons ?) This we do know (Peter C. Smith: "Vengeance"): anti-submarine patrols, from Ceylon and the Madras area.
As for his DFC, whatever he got it for, it wouldn't have been in a Vengeance. PR ? - very likely. Your:
...Did they give DFCs as end of tour BZs as they now do with OBEs?...
Danny.
Last edited by Danny42C; 6th May 2016 at 22:12. Reason: Correct Error.
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SirPeterHardingsLovechild (your #29),
I do not believe this for one moment, and I hope nobody else will.
Some old codgers are not what they purport to be. Walter Mittys come in all ages. We've had one or two on here.
Danny.
... so they turfed the ground crew out of theirs and took it. The ground crew were left to their fate...
...and more likely to be from any random old codger at the table...
Danny.
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The definitive answer? According to the 84 Squadron History 'Scorpions Sting', their Vengeances were stationed at Kumbhirgram in 1944. They also had a Spitfire Vc MA290 which they named 'The Looker'. This was used for weather reconnaissance after which attacks could be brought up if conditions were right. On one mission Sqn. Ldr. Gill was returning from a recce and saw two Japanese Ki-43 'Oscar' aircraft flying opposite him and overhead. He flew into cloud, turned and sighted one enemy aircraft ahead, closed to 100-200 yards and shot it down with 20mm cannon fire. AOC 221 Group was displeased as he had gone beyond the territorial area for weather recce and threatened to take the Spitfire away if he did it again.
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ValMORNA,
I left Khumbirgram in mid-November '43, and at that time we only had 45 Sqdn. with us there. It seems that 84 must have come in after I left. But the D.Tel says that they commenced operations on 16 February in the Arakan.
Khumbirgram is in Assam, about 200 miles North of the Arakan.
????
Danny.
I left Khumbirgram in mid-November '43, and at that time we only had 45 Sqdn. with us there. It seems that 84 must have come in after I left. But the D.Tel says that they commenced operations on 16 February in the Arakan.
Khumbirgram is in Assam, about 200 miles North of the Arakan.
????
Danny.
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Danny,
A further quote; 'On 11th February 1944, No.84 Squadron arrived at Kumbhirgam in Assam and joined No. 168 wing. The first operational mission took place on 16th February when 14 Vengeances dive-bombed Japanese positions in Burma.'
(Continuing) 'By careful attention to engine handling during the climb over the mountains en route to the target and during the cruise at 10,000-12,000feet 84 squadron were able to accept targets deep into Burma almost half as far as any of the other Vengeance squadrons.'
Does this explanation help?
A further quote; 'On 11th February 1944, No.84 Squadron arrived at Kumbhirgam in Assam and joined No. 168 wing. The first operational mission took place on 16th February when 14 Vengeances dive-bombed Japanese positions in Burma.'
(Continuing) 'By careful attention to engine handling during the climb over the mountains en route to the target and during the cruise at 10,000-12,000feet 84 squadron were able to accept targets deep into Burma almost half as far as any of the other Vengeance squadrons.'
Does this explanation help?
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How long is a piece of string ?
ValMORNA,
Not much ! 168 Wing is right (Wg.Cdr. Chater, I think). They were in Khumbirgram all right, the D.Tel. has it wrong.
What a load of bovine droppings ! (where did that come from ?)
Somewhere I have recounted how 110's Engineer Officer (name forgotten) offered a prize of a bottle of (Welfare supplies) Scotch to the first pilot to do an 'op' on less than 60 (US) galls/hr. It was won in a week. (His lads then spent the next two weeks changing burnt-out exhaust valves).
A 'light' VV will cruise at 150 mph on 3 ampg. Full bomb and ammo load and in formation, lucky to get 2. You have 220 (US) gallons (and no room for any more). Do the sum: 400 is the max comfortable range, a radius of 200.
So these people arrive at the very end, spend three months at it before the '44 monsoon, and show the other poor benighted squadrons (who'd been doing it since early '43) how to do it ?
Bah, Humbug !
A VV was not supposed to go after targets "deep into Burma" (Liberators and the like do that). Its business is Army Close Support - 50 miles from its strip to the Jap bunker which the Army ask us to dig out.
Will have a good long read of "Vengeance" (Peter C. Smith), to see if I can add anything.
Danny.
Not much ! 168 Wing is right (Wg.Cdr. Chater, I think). They were in Khumbirgram all right, the D.Tel. has it wrong.
...(Continuing) 'By careful attention to engine handling during the climb over the mountains en route to the target and during the cruise at 10,000-12,000feet 84 squadron were able to accept targets deep into Burma almost half as far as any of the other Vengeance squadrons...
Somewhere I have recounted how 110's Engineer Officer (name forgotten) offered a prize of a bottle of (Welfare supplies) Scotch to the first pilot to do an 'op' on less than 60 (US) galls/hr. It was won in a week. (His lads then spent the next two weeks changing burnt-out exhaust valves).
A 'light' VV will cruise at 150 mph on 3 ampg. Full bomb and ammo load and in formation, lucky to get 2. You have 220 (US) gallons (and no room for any more). Do the sum: 400 is the max comfortable range, a radius of 200.
...84 squadron were able to accept targets deep into Burma almost half as far as any of the other Vengeance squadrons...
Bah, Humbug !
A VV was not supposed to go after targets "deep into Burma" (Liberators and the like do that). Its business is Army Close Support - 50 miles from its strip to the Jap bunker which the Army ask us to dig out.
Will have a good long read of "Vengeance" (Peter C. Smith), to see if I can add anything.
Danny.
The following programme at 8 pm this evening BBC Two - Burma's Secret Jungle War with Joe Simpson, Episode 1 may be of interest relative to recent posts, given that my geography is not as good as Danny's....
Jack
Jack
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Well spotted, Jack. Am all agog ! (84 Sqdn make much play with their support for Wingate and his Chindits in the early days; it would be nice to know what they actually did), while we were merely helping out the common or garden troops of Slim's 14th Army in the Arakan against Miyawaki and Koga's armies.
Don't suppose I will end much wiser.
Danny.
Don't suppose I will end much wiser.
Danny.
Last edited by Danny42C; 8th May 2016 at 14:02. Reason: Missed second bracket !
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Thanks for the tip ... OH had spotted it too. Whether it's enlightening, or just a personal journey, we will discover later!
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Oh, good, it has subtitles ... now looking out for young Danny in his VV 
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I'm neither a pilot, nor an ex-member of 84 Squadron, but feel bound to make a contribution to the thread... as Arthur Gill's son.
On his behalf, many thanks, everybody, for the RIPs and interest in his story. Were he alive, I know he'd be making responses to everyone's comments, so I'll do my best on his behalf. I have written up his life story, for the family, so I'm reasonably knowledgeable. I don't know who wrote the Telegraph obituary, but there are a few dodgy bits in it... though putting obituaries together must be quite tricky.
Danny42C
Fantastic to 'meet' an ex-Vultee Vengeance (VV) aircrew member! WOW! I note you had left the battle before 84 Sqn arrived, so I appreciate that your knowledge isn't 100%... and there might be just a touch of 'inter-squadron rivalry' in what you wrote!! Haha!
My father reckoned, as you do, that the VV dived vertically. However some pilots thought it was just off the vertical, so there's different opinions about it. I gather it definitely felt like vertical (YIKES!)
Yes, 84 was one of six VV squadrons over Burma... the obituary was misleading by its omission. Regarding the monsoon, you say 84 effectively operated for 3 of the 5 months it was in theatre, because the monsoon would have prevented the squadron operating. In fact, they did continue to operate after the other VV squadrons had been withdrawn. The vertical dive started at about 12000', the aircraft finishing at maybe 200', and the pilot had to aim at the target, so low cloud made it unworkable. However, 84 developed a low level dive, which was less accurate, but still pretty effective. On top of this, Arthur's navigator, Jimmy Hawke, was a star performer (and won the DFC for it), so the squadron would invariably find it's target, unless the cloud was at ground level. So, 84 stuck at it, operationally, and picked up a lot of praise from ground commanders throughout it's 5 months, despite the monsoon.
You question why the VV didn't have more problems with Oscar fighters. In fact, the Allies had nine times the number of squadrons as the Japs, over Burma, in support of the '44/'45 offensive ... definite air superiority! Squadrons of Spits and Hurricanes were doing an excellent job of knocking down enemy aircraft, while bombing operations were targeting their airfields and the supply chain. However the VV (like the German Stuka) was extremely vulnerable to fighters. But despite this, they rarely flew with fighter cover. So if enemy aircraft were sighted in the target area, the mission would be delayed until it was 'safer' to operate.
I think 84 usually operated as a squadron of 12 aircraft, but they had more on strength, so 14 might have been possible on occasion. ( I don't have my father's log book to hand, so can't confirm this). He did, however, lead a Wing of 2 or 3 squadrons for 'maximum effort targets'. This was because his navigator was so dependable, despite the target often being in featureless jungle-clad hills.
The photo in the obituary does show Arthur in a VV mark II. The 'rails' you couldn't identify are in fact poles, supporting a camouflaged awning, under which the aircraft were serviced.
He did get his DFC for his leadership over Burma, of 84 Squadron and the Wing ops. The citation mentions the support of the Chindits and the 14th Army (Kohima and Imphal crises included). He led over 90 operations and 1500 (individual aircraft) sorties. Monsoon difficulties and lack of fighter cover was also mentioned, plus commendations from Army units.
Later on, you question the length of flights. 84 were specifically tasked to support the Chindits (900 soldiers conducting fighting patrols deep behind enemy lines, harassing and cutting communications while the Slim's 14th Army was invading from the North). This required flights of up to 3 hours, unlike the close-range ops in support of the main offensive. So careful fuel management was needed... low speed and gentle take-off. However, Arthur regretted that he was unable to give the Chindits as much support as he had hoped, because the demand from the 14th Army was so great... sometimes 3 ops a day.
You also doubted that the VV would be used for long distance support of the Chindits, suggesting that the Liberators would be doing such work. But in fact 84 had trained with the Chindits in Gwalior, so they had a special relationship with them. Also, as you acknowledged, the VV was accurate enough to attack targets close to friendly troops, unlike Liberators. Furthermore, it required just 3 aircraft to take out targets like a bridge... very effective use of resources.
There's plenty about this in 'Vengenance The Vultee Vengeance dive bomber' by Peter C Smith'. More too in the 84 Sqn history Scorpion's Sting by Don Neate'. (the former being written professionally).
You might also be amused to see the squadron in 1943. When the squadron was being reformed by my father at Vizapatam (following the loss of the squadron in the Far East), a film unit turned up and took some footage. Youtube.com: search World at War, episode 14, It's a lovely day tomorrow' At 25.51 ground crew wheel a VV, and at 26.20 Arthur (definitely!) taxies a VV past the camera. There's also shots of the camp... all in monsoon downpour! (Unrelated, there's good footage of Hurribombers in action at 45.10).
ValMORNA
Thanks for your various quotes from Scorpion's Sting... including the bit about Arthur bagging an Oscar and getting a telling-off for it!
Yes, 84 was going to go to the Arakan, but the airfield was found to be unusable due to flooding. They were then sent down to Ceylon (Sri Lanka), as there were intelligence reports of a pending Jap naval attack. They used the time practicing bombing techniques on ships and rock islands. After the threat diminished, they went to Ranchi and Arthur met with the AOC Pierce, Mountbatten, Wingate and Slim. He explained what the VV could do to a conference of 400 Army commanders, demonstrated the precision destruction of a bunker position, constructed by the Army. He consented to train with Wingate's Chindits, using smoke mortar bombs to triangulate and thus identify targets on the ground. After that, they moved to Khumbirgram in Assam, to join other VV squadrons in their deadly and vital work at the Front. To quote General Slim: 'The men of the 14th Army would have been doomed were it not for the men of the Air Force'. Poised to invade Burma, the 14th Army were shocked to have the Japanese army sweep through them as they began their own invasion of India! A desperate fight unfolded, Kohima and Imphal being cut-off by the Japs. The VV squadrons performed a vital role in relieving the 14th Army and destroying impregnable Jap bunker positions as the Army moved forward.
Teeteringhead
Arthur said he was stunt double for the film 'In the Air'. The original flying was done by one of the ex-RAF flying instructors at Hanworth, where Arthur trained to be a pilot in '37-'39, as a member of the RAF(VR). However the film crew needed some retakes and Arthur was asked to fly them. Whether any of his flying ended up in the film is uncertain. The flying is pretty impressive (I believe), being low level. Arthur had completed Elementary but not Service flying at that time... so one might wonder if he would have been good enough... though he was rated 'a natural' and was graded 'above average'. Judge for yourself (I'd be interested in a pilot's opinion). Youtube.com, search It's in the Air George Formby. Flying begins at Part7, 6.06 and continues into Part 8. Some of it is a model in front of a back projection screen. The song at the end is fun! The hangar area, plus the Blackburn B2 training aircraft and Hawker Harts were well known to Arthur.
Sir Peter
Your mischievous 'hearsay snippet' (!) about 84 Squadron's commander Wg Cdr John Jeudwine is decidedly dodgy!! He made a brave and remarkable six week escape from Java to Australia with 12 squadron personnel in a lifeboat under sail. I haven't heard about 'aircrew taking the ground crew's boat', but I suspect this down-plays the seriousness of the undertaking. Jeudwine hand-picked his crew for the perilous venture. At one point a Jap submarine surfaced close by and trained its guns on them.. the commander decided to spare them, greatly to his credit. They ran short of rations, coped with the baking sun and storms. Jeudwine did the navigation and kept morale up. The idea that the ground crew were left behind to fend for themselves is a grave insult. The plan from the start was to send a sub to pick them up. However when it finally arrived, there was no sign of them. They had by then been captured, of course. Jeudwine was a remarkable man... quiet but a true leader. His story is told in Global Warrior, Lacey-Johnson, ISBN 0-9536418-0-5. He is one of many outstanding Englishmen who gave their lives in the service of their country. (But I appreciate you were having a bit of mischievous fun, rather than genuinely insulting anyone!!)
In Conclusion....
My father has been called 'The RAF's foremost dive bomber pilot'. The claim has all the hallmarks of 'media hype'. But maybe there is something in it... if one defines it more precisely as 'foremost vertical dive bomber pilot'. He refined VV bombing technique in close air support and wrote an influential document on it, and on the training of VV pilots. This was sent out to all VV squadrons in '43. On the squadron, his flying skill was highly respected (graded 'exceptional'). He did an excellent job in Burma and would have got a DSO if General Slim's recommendation had been consented to by the RAF's Sir Keith Park. The Squadron kept operating in support of ground forces after the monsoon made things difficult. So, even if the claim is over-blown... I'm not just a little proud of him!
Nigel
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