Spitfire First Flight 80-years ago on 5th March 1936
"all the 2 seaters were 'modded' after the war. The irish started the 'fad'."
Did they, or did they get the idea from G-AIDN, which I still remember from its days being flown from Eastleigh by Viv Bellamy who bought it as a two seater from the manufacturer, Vickers Armstrong?
Photograph of Aircraft G-AIDN
Did they, or did they get the idea from G-AIDN, which I still remember from its days being flown from Eastleigh by Viv Bellamy who bought it as a two seater from the manufacturer, Vickers Armstrong?
Photograph of Aircraft G-AIDN
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Achtung, Spitfeuer !
Tankertrashnav (your #16),
'Fraid not ! (I'm far too frail and immobile to go across the road even to see a Spitfire, much less fly in one). I believe Vickers converted 20 IXs into the two-seat trainers; Wiki says ten went to the Indian Air Force and the Irish took six. I know the Belgians took at least one, for I saw it twice in the '60s at Coxyde (Ostend) in Belgian AF markings. The best known survivor is of course the Grace Spitfire, which does honour to all concerned in its heartwarming story.
I simply cannot accept that the alterations, the excess weight and the effect on the CoG have not degraded its handling to some degree. To my mind, there was never any requirement for it as a "lead-in" to a Spitfire in military use (in a post-war world full of ex-service Harvards). Indeed, I remember seeing some time ago a Post on this Forum reporting that the BBMF were getting, as a lead-in for their new Spitfire boys, not a IX(T), but a Harvard. (Cynics have always said that a Spitfire is a good lead-in for the Harvard !) And there is some truth in this: whereas the Spitfire is docile and viceless, the Harvard can be quite nasty when provoked.
Stand by for incoming !
Danny.
PS: GCAPT,
As the cost-inflation factor 1940/today is about 60 (£5695X60 = £341,760), £332,100 would be about right. But the UK wage-inflation factor over the same period is around 150, which would give a figure of £854,400, at the very low end of today's market values.
In any case, I would question the 1940 price of £5695. During the war, the popular "Spitfire Funds" aimed to raise £5,000 "to buy a Spitfire", but even then the real figure was reckoned as nearer £12,000 by "those in the know".
Today's prices are "collector's prices", and when two or more individuals with bottomless pockets are bidding for one of the rare specimens which come onto the market, the price can go anywhere. It is always true that "the value of any article is what a willing purchaser is prepared to pay for it in a free market" - neither more nor less.
Meanwhile the humbler Hurricane (which did the "heavy lifting" in the BoB - I believe there were thirty Hurricane squadrons and six Spitfire ones) lingers on in obscurity (at least in comparison with its more glamorous sister).
It was ever thus.
Danny.
'Fraid not ! (I'm far too frail and immobile to go across the road even to see a Spitfire, much less fly in one). I believe Vickers converted 20 IXs into the two-seat trainers; Wiki says ten went to the Indian Air Force and the Irish took six. I know the Belgians took at least one, for I saw it twice in the '60s at Coxyde (Ostend) in Belgian AF markings. The best known survivor is of course the Grace Spitfire, which does honour to all concerned in its heartwarming story.
I simply cannot accept that the alterations, the excess weight and the effect on the CoG have not degraded its handling to some degree. To my mind, there was never any requirement for it as a "lead-in" to a Spitfire in military use (in a post-war world full of ex-service Harvards). Indeed, I remember seeing some time ago a Post on this Forum reporting that the BBMF were getting, as a lead-in for their new Spitfire boys, not a IX(T), but a Harvard. (Cynics have always said that a Spitfire is a good lead-in for the Harvard !) And there is some truth in this: whereas the Spitfire is docile and viceless, the Harvard can be quite nasty when provoked.
Stand by for incoming !
Danny.
PS: GCAPT,
As the cost-inflation factor 1940/today is about 60 (£5695X60 = £341,760), £332,100 would be about right. But the UK wage-inflation factor over the same period is around 150, which would give a figure of £854,400, at the very low end of today's market values.
In any case, I would question the 1940 price of £5695. During the war, the popular "Spitfire Funds" aimed to raise £5,000 "to buy a Spitfire", but even then the real figure was reckoned as nearer £12,000 by "those in the know".
Today's prices are "collector's prices", and when two or more individuals with bottomless pockets are bidding for one of the rare specimens which come onto the market, the price can go anywhere. It is always true that "the value of any article is what a willing purchaser is prepared to pay for it in a free market" - neither more nor less.
Meanwhile the humbler Hurricane (which did the "heavy lifting" in the BoB - I believe there were thirty Hurricane squadrons and six Spitfire ones) lingers on in obscurity (at least in comparison with its more glamorous sister).
It was ever thus.
Danny.
I believe the South Africans made a two seater in Italy by removing a petrol tank from the nose, no dual controls though?
Danny, the Harvard is normally borrowed by BBMF to give the boys some heavy tail wheel experience after the chipmunk and prior to the Hurricane. After a suitable period on the Hurricane they are then let loose on the baby Spits. Thank you for your posts Sir.
Danny, the Harvard is normally borrowed by BBMF to give the boys some heavy tail wheel experience after the chipmunk and prior to the Hurricane. After a suitable period on the Hurricane they are then let loose on the baby Spits. Thank you for your posts Sir.
Sorry to hear that Danny. Never mind, you can perhaps embark on a new career teaching some of our members how to write cogent, grammatical, correctly spelled and interesting posts on here!
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Stitchbitch (your #23)
[
This diagram shows the two internal tanks (D and E) just forward of the cockpit. Total tankage was 85 galls (Imp), 48 in the top tank and and 37 in the bottom. Clearly the top tank would have to be removed to provide a very limited space for the passenger. Tests showed that the full internal tankage would give you a range (inc climb) of 450 mi at 20,000 ft in 'M' gear, so taking the top out would reduce that to 200 mi - hardly worth the trouble. Of course additional external fuel could be carried - but a better idea would be to put you chap in the back of a Tiger Moth (where he'd be more comfortable anyway !)
Almost exactly what we did in '42 ! Harvards - (Master, just to see we hadn't forgotten how to fly) - Hurricane - Spitfire.
A pleasure, Sir (or Madam ?)
Danny.
...I believe the South Africans made a two seater in Italy by removing a petrol tank from the nose, no dual controls though?...
This diagram shows the two internal tanks (D and E) just forward of the cockpit. Total tankage was 85 galls (Imp), 48 in the top tank and and 37 in the bottom. Clearly the top tank would have to be removed to provide a very limited space for the passenger. Tests showed that the full internal tankage would give you a range (inc climb) of 450 mi at 20,000 ft in 'M' gear, so taking the top out would reduce that to 200 mi - hardly worth the trouble. Of course additional external fuel could be carried - but a better idea would be to put you chap in the back of a Tiger Moth (where he'd be more comfortable anyway !)
...Danny, the Harvard is normally borrowed by BBMF to give the boys some heavy tail wheel experience after the chipmunk and prior to the Hurricane. After a suitable period on the Hurricane they are then let loose on the baby Spits...
...Thank you for your posts Sir...
Danny.
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Spare the Rod and Spoil the Child.
Tankertrashnav (your #24),
Now, now ! It was just my luck to have been dragged up in an era before the modern educational ideas took root (and when corporal punishment in schools was the norm !)
Danny.
..Sorry to hear that Danny. Never mind, you can perhaps embark on a new career teaching some of our members how to write cogent, grammatical, correctly spelled and interesting posts on here!..
Danny.
