Vulcan: who pressed THE button?
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Sounds pretty much like the B-52: and in addition, in the overhead of the bomb/nav compartment, the BUF had a couple of pull-down handles that operated a (very last-ditch) cable system that dropped the bombs mechanically. Through the bomb bay doors, IIRC, but it's been forty years.
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MS, indeed, however in addition to knowing that many of us also know the rules. THere are two topics that I would not comment upon and curiously have never been asked.
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The one incident that I do remember, was that at STM, the first pilot and Nav going through the cordon and then splitting up to check both the aircraft and the 177. They were both nearly shot by the surrounding US Marines! They never did it again! (2-man principle etc.)
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Or even the single seaters; Jaguar, Harrier (did they carry THE bomb), and that Wasp with everything stripped out. How do you maintain the 2 man principle when erm... there weren't 2 men?
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I was involved with all this at the same time as PN. But, to be honest, I now find the whole thing rather distasteful. Surely we have moved on from such discussions.
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The Buccanner was an interesting case, well they all were really.
As the pilot couldn't see the nav and vice versa the control was split with both requiring to complete but only one to abort. In the training rig though they sat side by side.
On one check the nav made all the correct switch movements and reported the correct lamp indications. As the checker sitting behind and the pilot sitting to the side we both saw the nav make a further improper switch action. While the reported lamp indications were correct the weapon would have dudded. It was an automatic fail.
However my boss, an engineer, guessed that the Sqn Cdr wanted the man chopped and my boss did not want us to be responsible; that crew were rechecked and passed.
The Valiant (TBF), F4 and Canberra had a US system with different security arrangements. The Nimrod had a US weapon but procedures were more akin to British procedures.
I can't answer for the Jag - British single man (or F104 NATO single man)
As the pilot couldn't see the nav and vice versa the control was split with both requiring to complete but only one to abort. In the training rig though they sat side by side.
On one check the nav made all the correct switch movements and reported the correct lamp indications. As the checker sitting behind and the pilot sitting to the side we both saw the nav make a further improper switch action. While the reported lamp indications were correct the weapon would have dudded. It was an automatic fail.
However my boss, an engineer, guessed that the Sqn Cdr wanted the man chopped and my boss did not want us to be responsible; that crew were rechecked and passed.
The Valiant (TBF), F4 and Canberra had a US system with different security arrangements. The Nimrod had a US weapon but procedures were more akin to British procedures.
I can't answer for the Jag - British single man (or F104 NATO single man)
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Pontiflex, I see your point but I think Peter Hennessey would disagree. Indeed in his radio broadcast cast, Finger on the Button, he had extracts from a drill on an SSBN and that it current ops.
The discussion is really how did it work, was it safe, and would we have done it.
The discussion is really how did it work, was it safe, and would we have done it.
Last edited by Pontius Navigator; 21st Dec 2015 at 18:52.
Although I had NBS experience with free fall weapons, I had previously worked on Blue Steel Victors. As the Blue Steel had it's own inertial nav. was the same release precision required or was it just a case of being within range and launching in the general direction of the target ?
It's an important part of history Pontifex.
To stand under the Vulcan bomb bay at Hendon Museum and watch the film of a streamed take off brings home the terrible solemnity of what it would have been like if it had ever happened.
As does imagining being on board and seeing that blinding flash through the windows (probably the last thing your non-eye patched eye would see).
Personally, as a child of the digital age, it's highly instructive to learn in detail about the analog systems that made the weapons system work, particularly their precision - all well before GPS.
To stand under the Vulcan bomb bay at Hendon Museum and watch the film of a streamed take off brings home the terrible solemnity of what it would have been like if it had ever happened.
As does imagining being on board and seeing that blinding flash through the windows (probably the last thing your non-eye patched eye would see).
Personally, as a child of the digital age, it's highly instructive to learn in detail about the analog systems that made the weapons system work, particularly their precision - all well before GPS.
Apologies for the thread drift, but given there are some people here very knowledgeable about the Vulcan, I have long wondered something.
Many (non-British) people know of the Vulcan largely because of the James Bond flick Thunderball. (one of my favorite Bond flicks, BTW).
After ditching the hijacked Vulcan, the pilot lowers the gear - an important step in making the stolen bombs readily accessible so important to the plot. But is it plausible that he could lower the gear after a water landing and the engines stopped?
Many (non-British) people know of the Vulcan largely because of the James Bond flick Thunderball. (one of my favorite Bond flicks, BTW).
After ditching the hijacked Vulcan, the pilot lowers the gear - an important step in making the stolen bombs readily accessible so important to the plot. But is it plausible that he could lower the gear after a water landing and the engines stopped?
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tdracer,
It depends on how hypothetical you want to get I suppose, but as nothing more than a straight answer to your question, notwithstanding the structural damage to the underside of the aircraft that would occur, yes you would be able to lower the undercarriage, but not via the normal system. For normal operation, the Vulcan was fitted with three engine driven hydraulic pumps, plus an electrical hydraulic pack, which operated the U/C system, the braking system, Nose Wheel Steering system, Bomb Doors and randomly enough the AAPP inlet scoop.
In the event of failure of the normal system and in line with most military aircraft, the U/C could be 'blown down' using high pressure nitrogen from stored bottles. This, in our hypothetical Thunderball situation, is how the U/C could be lowered as we dropped to the sea bed!
I'm still not sure how we would manage to swim from the cockpit, through the No2 fuel tanks and into the Bomb Bay though!!
Flipflopman
It depends on how hypothetical you want to get I suppose, but as nothing more than a straight answer to your question, notwithstanding the structural damage to the underside of the aircraft that would occur, yes you would be able to lower the undercarriage, but not via the normal system. For normal operation, the Vulcan was fitted with three engine driven hydraulic pumps, plus an electrical hydraulic pack, which operated the U/C system, the braking system, Nose Wheel Steering system, Bomb Doors and randomly enough the AAPP inlet scoop.
In the event of failure of the normal system and in line with most military aircraft, the U/C could be 'blown down' using high pressure nitrogen from stored bottles. This, in our hypothetical Thunderball situation, is how the U/C could be lowered as we dropped to the sea bed!
I'm still not sure how we would manage to swim from the cockpit, through the No2 fuel tanks and into the Bomb Bay though!!
Flipflopman
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Flip flop, I would need to see the film again but wonder if it was the radome hatch they used.
As for damage on ditching, I seem to recall a wheels up landing with minimal damage given the huge ground effect from the delta.
As for damage on ditching, I seem to recall a wheels up landing with minimal damage given the huge ground effect from the delta.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
WW, indeed. Nav Rad would hold the button and watch the NBS lights, plotter would have his finger on the button in the table. Both pilots would have theirs on the control stick.
Every button would be pressed.
Remember the aircraft would have flown the gauntlet of fighters, SA 2, SA 3, ADA, and maelstrom of hell. Who knew what damage it may have sustained or who might be incapacitated at the last moment.
Every button would be pressed.
Remember the aircraft would have flown the gauntlet of fighters, SA 2, SA 3, ADA, and maelstrom of hell. Who knew what damage it may have sustained or who might be incapacitated at the last moment.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Oberon, I was not on Blue Steel and only have an outline of the system. In the final run the missile would indeed been on its own. Prior to that a series of radar fixes would have been taken and a procedure based on fix-monitored-azimuth performed. Essentially was the missile inertial navigator properly aligned. Was its stable table stable. Values of kE and kN would be input and inertial drift minimised.
While the launch point was not as important as a bomb release point it was still important as it would determine the safe route for the missile.
While the launch point was not as important as a bomb release point it was still important as it would determine the safe route for the missile.
