Breaking news on Sky.....
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i haven't closely followed the Turkish/Greek air events over the years, but it seems to me that they're both a bit cavalier with 'weapons free'.
Time to grow up and start behaving sensibly? Or is that harsh?
Time to grow up and start behaving sensibly? Or is that harsh?
turkey is violating greek airspace every couple of days, they would get mad if Greeks downed their aircraft so why they think they should be allowed to do something others should not?
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Its gone beyond that spooky, they are here - they are amongst us now. Its now what 24 years from GW 1...33 years from the Lebanon death camps? Axes to grind and scores to settle. The roads well marked out.
The more distant we place our fighting men from our homes to do our bloody work, and the more technologically advanced methods we construct to kill them, they more they will use the polar opposite to kill us, as they are amongst us.
Neither of us are doing "P.C".
The more distant we place our fighting men from our homes to do our bloody work, and the more technologically advanced methods we construct to kill them, they more they will use the polar opposite to kill us, as they are amongst us.
Neither of us are doing "P.C".
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BBC world are hinting that the Turks shot down the bomber because it was, or rather its squadron mates have recently been attacking the "Turkmen", an armed group active against Syria's leader and Govt. but close to Turkey in every way kith and kin like.
Looks like a mistake, really.
I've left Max Hasting's recentish excellent book about the crazy start to WW1 at home, but this is ringing warning bells right in my head. The imbecile nature of the European leaders, I mean, at that time.
Looks like a mistake, really.
I've left Max Hasting's recentish excellent book about the crazy start to WW1 at home, but this is ringing warning bells right in my head. The imbecile nature of the European leaders, I mean, at that time.
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015, 20:14 #65 (permalink)
Hangarshuffle
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Its gone beyond that spooky, they are here - they are amongst us now. Its now what 24 years from GW 1...33 years from the Lebanon death camps? Axes to grind and scores to settle. The roads well marked out.
The more distant we place our fighting men from our homes to do our bloody work, and the more technologically advanced methods we construct to kill them, they more they will use the polar opposite to kill us, as they are amongst us.
Neither of us are doing "P.C".
You are so right Hangarshuffle, how long till the majority can see the wood from the trees?
Hangarshuffle
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: England
Posts: 658
Its gone beyond that spooky, they are here - they are amongst us now. Its now what 24 years from GW 1...33 years from the Lebanon death camps? Axes to grind and scores to settle. The roads well marked out.
The more distant we place our fighting men from our homes to do our bloody work, and the more technologically advanced methods we construct to kill them, they more they will use the polar opposite to kill us, as they are amongst us.
Neither of us are doing "P.C".
You are so right Hangarshuffle, how long till the majority can see the wood from the trees?
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Turkey has several dogs in the Syrian fight. This downing was not about airspace violation, it was about Turkey's unhappiness with the Russians impact on their agenda. It was also a very naďve action from which Turkey will not benefit.
Very sad news about the pilots. Their cold blooded murderers (BTW, where is the condemnation of their actions?) are apparently the West's best buddies.
Very sad news about the pilots. Their cold blooded murderers (BTW, where is the condemnation of their actions?) are apparently the West's best buddies.
Hee hee, you got me. 
Well done, that one flew over me at FL 330.
Skyhawk: is it confirmed that the aircrew are dead? And is it confirmed at the hands of the locals?
(Recall an old "Murphy's Laws of Combat" to the effect of "not a great idea to eject over the area you just strafed" or something like that. Not that this aircrew had a choice ...
)
Well done, that one flew over me at FL 330.Skyhawk: is it confirmed that the aircrew are dead? And is it confirmed at the hands of the locals?
(Recall an old "Murphy's Laws of Combat" to the effect of "not a great idea to eject over the area you just strafed" or something like that. Not that this aircrew had a choice ...
)
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I like the Asian peoples, and Middle Eastern people, and all other people generally, but I'm afraid total hate is in so many hearts now.
Payback. When I listened, lying in my bunk in the ramp mess, to our jets blasting off the deck on bombing raids or whatever 20 odd years ago, I used to think...some of the kids onshore are going to be on the end of this dished out grief. They may not full understand or care why we are hitting them, but they may come back, after us any way they can when they grow up. And so in yet another area its come, or coming back to us, now.
Syria must be half full of disaffected bitter men by now, after 5 years of war and grief and they've got through the borders of Europe. Its a spiral.
Payback. When I listened, lying in my bunk in the ramp mess, to our jets blasting off the deck on bombing raids or whatever 20 odd years ago, I used to think...some of the kids onshore are going to be on the end of this dished out grief. They may not full understand or care why we are hitting them, but they may come back, after us any way they can when they grow up. And so in yet another area its come, or coming back to us, now.
Syria must be half full of disaffected bitter men by now, after 5 years of war and grief and they've got through the borders of Europe. Its a spiral.
I like the Asian peoples, and Middle Eastern people, and all other people generally, but I'm afraid total hate is in so many hearts now.
Payback. When I listened, lying in my bunk in the ramp mess, to our jets blasting off the deck on bombing raids or whatever 20 odd years ago, I used to think...some of the kids onshore are going to be on the end of this dished out grief. They may not full understand or care why we are hitting them, but they may come back, after us any way they can when they grow up. And so in yet another area its come, or coming back to us, now.
Syria must be half full of disaffected bitter men by now, after 5 years of war and grief and they've got through the borders of Europe. Its a spiral.
Payback. When I listened, lying in my bunk in the ramp mess, to our jets blasting off the deck on bombing raids or whatever 20 odd years ago, I used to think...some of the kids onshore are going to be on the end of this dished out grief. They may not full understand or care why we are hitting them, but they may come back, after us any way they can when they grow up. And so in yet another area its come, or coming back to us, now.
Syria must be half full of disaffected bitter men by now, after 5 years of war and grief and they've got through the borders of Europe. Its a spiral.
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Skyhawk: is it confirmed that the aircrew are dead? And is it confirmed at the hands of the locals?
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First off, my sincere condolences to the crew who lost their lives and their families and friends, regardless of their Country of origin they did not deserve to be murdered like that.
The only winners in this sorry affair is Daesh, they must be taking heart from the idea that there will now be conflict and mistrust amongst those Countries operating over Iraq and Syria.
Just when I thought the World was starting to sing from the same hymn sheet in their efforts to irradiate this scum, this happens.
The only winners in this sorry affair is Daesh, they must be taking heart from the idea that there will now be conflict and mistrust amongst those Countries operating over Iraq and Syria.
Just when I thought the World was starting to sing from the same hymn sheet in their efforts to irradiate this scum, this happens.
https://www.rt.com/news/323329-russi...litary-turkey/
Three steps as announced by top brass:
This is escalating quickly.
Three steps as announced by top brass:
- Each and every strike groups’ operation is to be carried out under the guise of fighter jets
- Air defense to be boosted with the deployment of Moskva guided missile cruiser off Latakia coast with an aim to destroy any target that may pose danger
- Military contacts with Turkey to be suspended
This is escalating quickly.
A ridiculously extreme over-reaction from the Turks - they deserve whatever is coming to them when Vladimir Putin decides on the appropriate response.
Erdoğan isn't likely to find many people supporting such a stupid, disproportionate response to a 17 second incursion; perhaps he's trying to prove himself following the recent Turkish General Election?
Meanwhile, after admitting that his rebels murdered the Russian crew in their parachutes, Alpaslan Çelik's days are probably numbered, given that there are large numbers of Spetsnaz in Syria. Not people to be messed with - as he and his cohorts will probably discover to their cost.
Erdoğan isn't likely to find many people supporting such a stupid, disproportionate response to a 17 second incursion; perhaps he's trying to prove himself following the recent Turkish General Election?
Meanwhile, after admitting that his rebels murdered the Russian crew in their parachutes, Alpaslan Çelik's days are probably numbered, given that there are large numbers of Spetsnaz in Syria. Not people to be messed with - as he and his cohorts will probably discover to their cost.
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Interesting wording
Sergey Rudskoy, a top official with the Russian General Staff, condemned the attack on the Russian bomber in Syrian airspace by a Turkish fighter jet as “a severe violation of international law”. He stressed that the Su-24 was downed over the Syrian territory. The crash site was four kilometers away from the Turkish border, he said.
But that does not mean the missile was not launched at the Aircraft while it was in Turkish airspace
Sergey Rudskoy, a top official with the Russian General Staff, condemned the attack on the Russian bomber in Syrian airspace by a Turkish fighter jet as “a severe violation of international law”. He stressed that the Su-24 was downed over the Syrian territory. The crash site was four kilometers away from the Turkish border, he said.
But that does not mean the missile was not launched at the Aircraft while it was in Turkish airspace
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Obama "moderate opposition"
How any parties in this mess can be called " moderate opposition" beggars belief.The Americans need a change of President because this Obama is totally hopeless.
The only winners in this sorry affair is Daesh, they must be taking heart from the idea that there will now be conflict and mistrust amongst those Countries operating over Iraq and Syria.
Just when I thought the World was starting to sing from the same hymn sheet in their efforts to irradiate this scum, this happens.
Just when I thought the World was starting to sing from the same hymn sheet in their efforts to irradiate this scum, this happens.
