Paris Attacked!
Not good ... I have a horrible feeling the casualty count will rise rapidly ... I hope not but the head rules the heart. The longer this goes on the happier the terrorists will be ... after all their whole purpose is to "terrorise" .. and the scenes from France show just that .. thoughts and prayers with all the victims
Linedog, no need for peddling any kind of personal, political agenda just now.
Here in France the view seems to be looking inward for the source of the problem, although obviously too early to determine very much.
Please take your anti-EU outrage elsewhere for now, it is not appropriate here or now.
Here in France the view seems to be looking inward for the source of the problem, although obviously too early to determine very much.
Please take your anti-EU outrage elsewhere for now, it is not appropriate here or now.
Funny then how one of the first actions of the French Govt was to close all borders then...
I'm with you Linedog - no politics just common sense security measures!
I wonder if Friday 13th has been planned for long or if this was as a result of the airstrikes that alledge to have taken down Jihadi John and a few of those travelling with him? This may just play into the hands of the Syrian airstrikes debate.
LJ
I'm with you Linedog - no politics just common sense security measures!
I wonder if Friday 13th has been planned for long or if this was as a result of the airstrikes that alledge to have taken down Jihadi John and a few of those travelling with him? This may just play into the hands of the Syrian airstrikes debate.
LJ
NATO
France has been attacked. This should trigger the NATO charter Turkey getting in the fight. Turkish bases should be opened to receive the NATO troops, planes, and ships to support a mass Turkish lead operation. Turkey should also be strongly reminded the Kurds are US allies and will be defended against any attacker.
The Sultan
The Sultan
Originally Posted by linedog
EU, open borders. Yeah. Great idea.
Originally Posted by leon jabachjabicz
Funny then how one of the first actions of the French Govt was to close all borders then...
Both are utterly inappropriate at a time like this. Death count currently 154. Put your smart ideas aside for a while and understand what's happening tonight.
Sultan, I have no idea what your post means. I hope you would have been tolerant of someone posting something like that after 9/11.
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Linedog, I don't find your comment inappropriate in current situation.
My sympathies are with the people of Paris and France.
My sympathies are with the people of Paris and France.
Last edited by rjtjrt; 14th Nov 2015 at 03:42. Reason: To clarify
Normally CM I have a large slice of agreement with your opinions, but on this matter I don't.
Open borders allow terrorists to roam freely and the EU has an open border policy - no disputing that. Goodness knows how many terrorists have snuck into the soft underbelly of the EU and have now quite freely wandered through Europe and wait for the next 'call' from their cause. Proper border controls make matters for people with nefarious plans a lot harder - yes, it's a nause for the rest of us, but I would rather avoid tragedies like tonight by having tough border controls. I note that Belgium have also just boosted their border controls at this time.
When is a good time to opine on such matters? I would suggest right now is as good as any. Let's get the elephant in the room out the way as well...let me guess what is behind all of this uneccessary suffering? Oh yes, some people trying to kill non-believers in the name of their imaginary friend. I am losing my tolerance for small minded people and delusional beliefs, the rest of us would like our planet back!
LJ
PS. I bet its a tense night in the Q-sheds tonight...
Open borders allow terrorists to roam freely and the EU has an open border policy - no disputing that. Goodness knows how many terrorists have snuck into the soft underbelly of the EU and have now quite freely wandered through Europe and wait for the next 'call' from their cause. Proper border controls make matters for people with nefarious plans a lot harder - yes, it's a nause for the rest of us, but I would rather avoid tragedies like tonight by having tough border controls. I note that Belgium have also just boosted their border controls at this time.
When is a good time to opine on such matters? I would suggest right now is as good as any. Let's get the elephant in the room out the way as well...let me guess what is behind all of this uneccessary suffering? Oh yes, some people trying to kill non-believers in the name of their imaginary friend. I am losing my tolerance for small minded people and delusional beliefs, the rest of us would like our planet back!
LJ
PS. I bet its a tense night in the Q-sheds tonight...
France has been attacked. This should trigger the NATO charter Turkey getting in the fight. Turkish bases should be opened to receive the NATO troops, planes, and ships to support a mass Turkish lead operation. Turkey should also be strongly reminded the Kurds are US allies and will be defended against any attacker.
The Sultan
The Sultan
Kurds, now there's a tricky one. They are not monolithic and the PKK have killed a couple of hundred Turkish police and soldiers since June. Some groups are happy to fight ISIS but align themselves with the Assad regime and ethnic-cleanse the areas they occupy. Don't get taken in by the 'plucky Kurd' rhetoric.
Expect a large Turkish Air Force "anti ISIS" strike in Northern Syria today. Nothing to do with bonkers Erdošan hosting the G20 on Sunday. Not at all...
While my thoughts and condolences are with the victims and their families, my main concern is with keeping everyone else alive.
I'm with Line Dog - there is never a wrong time to consider such things.
I'm with Line Dog - there is never a wrong time to consider such things.
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Anybody that thinks "open" or "closed" borders (whatever that means in globalised international society) will prevent, or even reduce, this form terrorism is clutching at straws.
This war kicked off around the time of the first crusade and it won't be done until the human race has gone.
It's part of our world and we have to live it, just as we have done for most of human history.
If you are looking for measures to better manage it, we had a bunch of those just last week over here - enhanced legislation to monitor communications of all kinds. Big brother is watching, because big brother has to. We have to tolerate intrusion into our private communications, because that is one of the only effective ways to catch these medieval retards before they commit their acts.
I feel for France today - I have many friends living there and it's a great place full of wonderful people.
This war kicked off around the time of the first crusade and it won't be done until the human race has gone.
It's part of our world and we have to live it, just as we have done for most of human history.
If you are looking for measures to better manage it, we had a bunch of those just last week over here - enhanced legislation to monitor communications of all kinds. Big brother is watching, because big brother has to. We have to tolerate intrusion into our private communications, because that is one of the only effective ways to catch these medieval retards before they commit their acts.
I feel for France today - I have many friends living there and it's a great place full of wonderful people.
With linedog and lj 100%. Only last night in the pub I was reading an newspaper article with the writer saying he would never go on holiday to a Muslim country again due to the dangers, sound advice indeed.
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Only last night in the pub I was reading an newspaper article with the writer saying he would never go on holiday to a Muslim country again due to the dangers, sound advice indeed.
Paris has suffered an outrage - it wasn't that long ago they had the incident on a much smaller scale with terrorists targeting them... So is Paris on your 'no-go' list now? How about London, New York, Birmingham even... or any other city in the non-Muslim world? They are also high profile targets and although maybe not quite as high risk as some other countries, Muslim or otherwise, surely you must avoid them as well?
If you have that attitude, then the terrorists have already won. By all means be careful where you go, but to say you are never going to visit a Muslim country is short sighted...you may as well get your supplies in now and hunker down at home for the rest of your life. The threat is NOT specific to those countries and is possibly less in some of those countries than it is in France right now... at what point would you deem it safe to visit Paris?...
RIP all involved, such a wonderful city
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And our fight will be merciless
Hollande says"And our fight will be merciless".They will say these words for a few more days but in reality nothing will be done.Until they,that is the French,the US,the British,the Russians and whoever else put boots on the ground."ISIL", "ISIS", "Daesh", and "Islamic State group" or whatever and whoever they are will not be defeated.In the last couple of weeks they have killed hundreds in the Sinai,in Beirut and in Paris,and we are told they are a spent force,there days are numbered etc.The killing of Mohammed Emwazi is of course very good news,although the Corbins of this world don't believe in the Extrajudicial killings,well if the terrorists who committed these acts in Paris were dealt with in an extra-judicial manner beforehand Paris would be a lot happier place leading up to Christmas."And our fight will be merciless" Condolences to all those affected.
The use of suicide belts suggests this was not home-grown terrorism, but an attack organised and orchestrated from outside Europe - almost without doubt from IS.
I think it inevitable that in the next few days France will retaliate heavily against IS with initially air-strikes. We and the US will also be involved. I think this will also lead to ground intervention.
I think it inevitable that in the next few days France will retaliate heavily against IS with initially air-strikes. We and the US will also be involved. I think this will also lead to ground intervention.
Originally Posted by The Old Fat One
This war kicked off around the time of the first crusade
Actually, I think you'll find the Umayyad caliphs kicked things off when they expanded their empire through then-Christian North Africa soon after Mohammad's death, crossed into the Iberian peninsula in 711 and fought their way up to Poitiers before being halted by Charles Martel. The Crusades were a response to that rapid expansion, by 1095 a second front of which posed a direct threat to the Christian heartland of antiquity (Byzantium, i.e. modern-day Turkey).
The Truth about the Crusades | Raymond Ibrahim
That is what gave birth to the Crusades. They were not the brainchild of an ambitious pope or rapacious knights but a response to more than four centuries of conquests in which Muslims had already captured two-thirds of the old Christian world. At some point, Christianity as a faith and a culture had to defend itself or be subsumed by Islam. The Crusades were that defense.
Karl Popper's 'paradox of tolerance', published in 1945 before the question of immigration really troubled the public consciousness, bears some thought:
Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them. – In this formulation, I do not imply, for instance, that we should always suppress the utterance of intolerant philosophies; as long as we can counter them by rational argument and keep them in check by public opinion, suppression would certainly be most unwise. But we should claim the right to suppress them if necessary even by force; for it may easily turn out that they are not prepared to meet us on the level of rational argument, but begin by denouncing all argument; they may forbid their followers to listen to rational argument, because it is deceptive, and teach them to answer arguments by the use of their fists or pistols. We should therefore claim, in the name of tolerance, the right not to tolerate the intolerant.
Last edited by Easy Street; 14th Nov 2015 at 07:56.
