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Kfir's for Argentina

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Kfir's for Argentina

Old 10th Nov 2015, 14:04
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Kfir's for Argentina

Given that the Kfir uses a License built J79, would the US still have to approve this sale, or does the fact they're license built remove the issue? Assuming the sale actually happens of course, given all the recent to and fro over new aircraft for Argentina...

https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/arge...-fighter-jets/

-RP
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Old 10th Nov 2015, 14:34
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Also reported on Flight International:-
Argentina to sign for AESA-equipped Kfir fighters
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Old 10th Nov 2015, 14:39
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Looks like Hymie's Used Aluminium dealership has arranged financing via his brother Sol's 'No Deposit - Pay Us When You Can' scheme.

Sweeteners include brand new re-treaded tyres plus a free tank of gas - and, if we can wrap this up today, we'll throw in a set of genuine floor mats!
Fluffy dice can be provided at a discount.
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Old 10th Nov 2015, 16:59
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I hope they don't ever expect to be paid???

Maybe the AAF trying to get something before the new Presdient is elected???
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Old 11th Nov 2015, 09:34
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The deal will hinge less on licensing issues than the more obvious issue of how they'll be paid for! Just spotted a tasty Mig 21 on tradeaplane for $90,000 US. Are you interested in a syndicate Christina?
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Old 11th Nov 2015, 10:13
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As far as I understand, nothing will be signed under the present administration. Their minister of defence said this yesterday.

The opposition who are likely to win the presidential race have criticised the deal. The minister, Rossi, stated yesterday that the contract would be left to be signed (or not) by the next administration.

Meanwhile, the Mirages have been retired.... sounds a bit like the Harrier and carriers leaving a capability gap when retired.
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Old 11th Nov 2015, 13:00
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So, just to sum up, first it was ex-Spanish Mirage F.1s, then Brazilian-supplied Gripens, then Russian Su-24s and now Israeli Kfirs.

Maybe they should just ask the RAF if they'd be willing to base a couple more Typhoons at MPA and maybe extend 1435's area of responsibility to cover mainland Argentina as well.
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Old 11th Nov 2015, 14:41
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You are forgetting the Chinese JF-17 as well, that was mooted at one point. The Kfirs have been mentioned before now, however.
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Old 11th Nov 2015, 16:35
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there was a US F-16 deal on the cards in the 1990's(?) as well. the French strung them along with an F1 deal after the Spanish one went tits up - of course, it was the French who made the Spanish deal go tits up as they finally told the Spanish that they would not allow the French built aircraft to be sold to Argentina.

after Argentina had spent a fortune on training pilots to fly the F1's...

the French deal didn't last very long, iirc the Argentines had got wind that it was the French who'd screwed them over on the Spanish deal, and the French couldn't keep a straight face.

we shall see if this goes any further, but while its all worth a good laugh at Argentina 'upgrading' to a aircraft everyone else has scrapped, a dozen Kfir with an AESA radar and a handful of BVRAAM's would run our four Typhoons - unless they can be in 6 different places at once - ragged.
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Old 11th Nov 2015, 16:44
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Not quite. KFIR's J79 is notoriously thirsty and would likely need some form of AAR support, unless big jugs are carried; which kind of negates its combat performance.....
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Old 4th Jan 2017, 12:20
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Argentinian Kfir negotiations set to resume

Flight Global - Argentinian Kfir negotiations set to resume

Snip:-
Israel Aerospace Industries (IAI) has so far exported 40 Kfir Block 60 upgraded fighter aircraft, and plans to assemble and upgrade another 12-14 for Argentina.

Sources say negotiations about the proposed sale to Argentina are about to resume, following two previous rounds of talks that did not result in a contract.
Third time (un)lucky?
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Old 4th Jan 2017, 14:02
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They just can't quite break free of the Skyhawk and Mirage III addiction can they.

I would start worrying when they buy some modern submarines, quite why they never attacked the supply line back up to Ascension was always a mystery to me, that's where my assets would have been employed.
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Old 4th Jan 2017, 14:18
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Still doesn't answer the question of where the $$$ will come from................ see teh Economist article below

suspect some Israeli salesmen fancy some winter sunshine and air miles..................

Recession emboldens Argentina’s opposition An end to a reformist president’s long honeymoon

Dec 24th 2016 | BUENOS AIRES



ASKED recently to rate his first year as Argentina’s president, Mauricio Macri gave himself eight out of ten. Some immodesty is justified. Almost overnight after taking office Mr Macri dismantled the populist policies of his predecessor, Cristina Fernández de Kirchner. He eased currency controls; had the national statistics institute stop massaging inflation figures; and resolved a dispute with holders of overdue government debt, restoring Argentina’s access to capital markets.

Argentines have been less generous with praise. Mr Macri promised that by now confidence would be back and healthy growth would ease the pain of his reforms. Instead the economy remains sickly: GDP will shrink by 1.8% in 2016, says the IMF. In October industrial production fell by 8%, year on year; construction collapsed by 19%. One in 12 Argentines is out of work. Inflation may no longer be misreported, but looks stuck at 35%. With incomes crimped, households are spending 7.5% less on basic goods than in 2015, estimates CCR, a consultancy.

Lacking a majority in congress, until recently the president could at least count on disarray among rivals. The dominant Peronist movement once held together by Ms Fernández fractured after her candidate’s defeat by Mr Macri: moderates backed some of his ideas; hardliners refused to. With growth prospects receding, the two camps have put their differences aside.

In November Sergio Massa, a moderate Peronist, proposed raising the amount of income exempt from tax by 60%. This would please cash-strapped voters, but stretch the budget by 0.6% of GDP, equivalent to a year’s spending on public works. The opposition pushed the measure through the lower house on December 6th. The senate may do so on December 21st.

That would leave Mr Macri in a bind: signing the bill would scotch his plans to trim the deficit in 2017 from 7.2% to 6.8% of GDP; a veto may fuel a public backlash. He has been courting the country’s governors, hoping they talk sense to senators. Provinces stand to lose out if Mr Massa gets his way: income taxes are shared between the federal and regional governments.

A compromise, perhaps involving a lower threshold, is not out of reach. But the episode has already cast doubt over Mr Macri’s ability to complete the reforms—to rigid labour rules or bloated bureaucracy—that Argentina still needs. Observers see it as a portent that his Cambiemos (Let’s Change) coalition cannot live up to its name, says Jimena Blanco of Verisk Maplecroft, a consultancy.

Mr Macri may be hoping that opponents will find it harder to obstruct his proposals once economic revival proves these are working. The government forecasts growth of 3.5% in 2017, helped by farm exports and an end to a wrenching recession in Brazil, Argentina’s biggest trading partner. But neither looks assured. Brazil’s recovery has disappointed. And trade may suffer as more countries turn protectionist. Mr Macri’s second year may be more testing than his first.
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Old 4th Jan 2017, 20:28
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Reading the above from HH.... THIS is the time to throw them a lifeline, but one that WE control...
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Old 5th Jan 2017, 09:51
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what, you mean like the last time the UK had a close defence relationship with Argentina, when we sold them Type 42 Destroyers and Canberra bombers?

personally i'm a fan of defence engagement as a tool of foreign policy, but i'm afraid i think that in this case it wouldn't work in our interests - we could put 30 years of work and investment into it and we could find it biting us in the arse for the sake of some poor electoral results.

distasteful as it is the current policy - that of using our economic and diplomatic muscle to strangle any re-emergence of Argentine Air capability at birth - is the most effective way of keeping this argument in the diplomatic sphere.
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Old 5th Jan 2017, 14:45
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maybe we could sell them a few hardly-used T45's... and a tug.......
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Old 5th Jan 2017, 15:10
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Did I mention weapon systems?

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Old 5th Jan 2017, 15:29
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WRT to Post #9

'Quantity has a Quality all of it's own..............................'

Arc
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Old 5th Jan 2017, 16:47
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Glad rag,

given that the thread is about Argentina trying to buy weapon systems, and you made a post about helping them - on our terms - what else were your refering to?

JCB's? Sweets? spare parts for vacuum cleaners?
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Old 5th Jan 2017, 17:30
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Indeed anything that strengthens the position of the current government

"Mr Macri may be hoping that opponents will find it harder to obstruct his proposals once economic revival proves these are working" [from the above post by HH]

who are unlikely to spend on weapon systems.

We [ergo the FI who MUST have the final word] would be well served by supporting the current non populist government in a suitable, controllable manner.
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