SDSR rumours.
Thread Starter
BEagle
Your final point was that we wouldn't be able to surge and train more. My retort is that by fair means or foul the military will find a way as we always do.
We could spend all weekend arguing about the rights and wrongs of it and how it won't be as good as it was in the good old days but regardless of all that, it'll get done.
BV
We could spend all weekend arguing about the rights and wrongs of it and how it won't be as good as it was in the good old days but regardless of all that, it'll get done.
BV
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Correct. HQ CFS have difficulty sourcing QFIs with the requisite background; RAFAT have had to lower the entry standard. The pool of pilots to draw instructors (or display pilots) from is now too small, especially if any kind of expansion is required. Expect to see civvie instructors on Hawks to alleviate the shortage.
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RAFAT have had to lower the entry standard.
Originally Posted by MSOCS
Originally Posted by Double Hush
RAFAT have had to lower the entry standard...
Easy Street, in which case RAFAT has changed the entry prerequisites, but that doesn't mean that the Team's actual standards will be any lower than hitherto.
BEagle - No disagreement here, was just answering the question as put!
AFAIK the other historical requirement, an assessment of Above Average in the air, still stands. But given the change in typical profile of team members it will more often be a 'previously-held' assessment based on A2 QFI status, perhaps gained towards the end of a 'creamie' tour, whereas in days gone by the assessment was just as likely to have been earned (or confirmed) on a front-line type. The relative attributes of 'Above Average' individuals of these two kinds would be a topic of contentious crewroom debate, taking this even further off-thread. I take no position here!
AFAIK the other historical requirement, an assessment of Above Average in the air, still stands. But given the change in typical profile of team members it will more often be a 'previously-held' assessment based on A2 QFI status, perhaps gained towards the end of a 'creamie' tour, whereas in days gone by the assessment was just as likely to have been earned (or confirmed) on a front-line type. The relative attributes of 'Above Average' individuals of these two kinds would be a topic of contentious crewroom debate, taking this even further off-thread. I take no position here!
Last edited by Easy Street; 8th Nov 2015 at 08:09.
Seeing as the Air Cadet Gliding Organisations are in 'rag order' then I suggest the following might play out. The loss of the Vigilant due to cost of rectification and upgraded engine requirements, which leads to a loss of VGS (and closure of airfields) at:
Abingdon Airfield, Dalton Barracks (this would be the last public funded flying so could see the airfield close)
Arbroath Airfield, RMB Condor (this would be the last public funded flying so could see the airfield close)
Chivenor Airfield, RMB Chivenor (ties in with the loss of SAR so airfield will shut)
RAF Cosford (airfield stays open as UAS/AEF continues)
RAF Halton (airfield stays open as JSAT(G) and Recruit AEF continues)
RAF Henlow (this would be the last public funded flying so could see the airfield close)
RAF Honington (this would be the last public funded flying so could see the airfield close)
Kinloss Airfield, Kinloss Barracks (remains open as crash div for Lossiemouth)
RAF Linton on Ouse (already due for closure under MFTS)
RAF Little Rissington (this would be the last public funded flying so could see the airfield close)
Newtonards Airfield (Vigilants will go from civvy airfield)
RAF Odiham (airfield stays open for JHC activity)
RAF St Athan (recently announced closure as RAF Cosford becomes the centre of RAF tech trg)
Swansea Airport (Vigilants will go from civvy airport)
RAF Topcliffe, Allanbrooke Barracks (this would be the last public funded flying so could see the airfield close)
RAF Tern Hill (airfield stays open for DHFS activities)
RAF Woodvale (airfield stays open for UAS/AEF)
However, RAF Kenley, MDP Wethersfield, RNAS Predannack and RAF Kirknewton currently operate the Viking and are outwith any day to day full-time support from the military. So this could see the Viking introduced at RAF Cosford, RAF Halton, Kinloss, RAF Odiham, RAF Woodvale, RAF Topcliffe and RAF Tern Hill where DIO currently has to support an airfield with other on-going public funded flying.
So savings made through the closure of airfields at:
Abingdon, Arbroath (RMB Condor), RMB Chivenor, RAF Henlow, RAF Honington, RAF Little Rissington, RAF Kenley, RAF Topcliffe, MDP Wethersfield and RAF Kirknewton. The sale of this land could see a nice return of revenue to the Treasury. The sale of St Athan and RAF Linton on Ouse has already been announced.
Future Air Cadet gliding could be available at:
RAF Cosford
RAF Halton
Hullavington Airfield, Buckley Barracks
Kinloss Airfield, Kinloss Barracks
RAF Odiham
RNAS Predannack or RMB Chivenor (TBD)
RAF Syerston (HQ 2FTS)
RAF Tern Hill
Upavon Airfield, Trenchard Lines
RAF Woodvale
With the possibility of opening up Air Cadet gliding on the following sites:
RAF Leuchars (Waterloo Barracks - currently Lossie weather div and home of UAS/AEF and fills loss of Kirknewton)
RAF Leeming (capacity for weekend gliding and fills loss of Linton and Topcliffe)
RAF St Athan - keep an enclave for South Wales for VGS/UAS/AEF
So that's 13 locations delivering gliding with ~80 Vikings. So approximately 4 per VGS and always around 15-20 in servicing.
Then, with MFTS coming on line, then the excess Tutors could go to the AEFs to offer extra flying to the increased numbers of the Air Cadets.
Right, that's the Air Cadets sorted out...
...now for the rest.
I'm hearing rumours on a need to re-open the WSO pipeline and an increase in WSOps plus more pilots (FJ and ME with the possibility of crossing over some RW pilots) and that means the following is most likely coming:
- More Reapers under Project SCAVENGER
- Run on of the Tornado GR4 awaiting delivery of some more Typhoons
- A maritime patrol aircraft (P8 or other)
- MFTS expansion to deliver increased manpower (with more QFIs needed)
- Increase in techies going through RAF Cosford (which is why DCTT Lyneham has ceased)
I think we will see the reduction of Field Sqns in the RAF Regt. I would hope we see Admin branches (Scribbly, Trg and PEd) thinned dwon into FTRS and Civil Service posts.
There you go, that fills my rumours into what I think might happen...whilst watching the Cenotaph Ceremony.
LJ
Abingdon Airfield, Dalton Barracks (this would be the last public funded flying so could see the airfield close)
Arbroath Airfield, RMB Condor (this would be the last public funded flying so could see the airfield close)
Chivenor Airfield, RMB Chivenor (ties in with the loss of SAR so airfield will shut)
RAF Cosford (airfield stays open as UAS/AEF continues)
RAF Halton (airfield stays open as JSAT(G) and Recruit AEF continues)
RAF Henlow (this would be the last public funded flying so could see the airfield close)
RAF Honington (this would be the last public funded flying so could see the airfield close)
Kinloss Airfield, Kinloss Barracks (remains open as crash div for Lossiemouth)
RAF Linton on Ouse (already due for closure under MFTS)
RAF Little Rissington (this would be the last public funded flying so could see the airfield close)
Newtonards Airfield (Vigilants will go from civvy airfield)
RAF Odiham (airfield stays open for JHC activity)
RAF St Athan (recently announced closure as RAF Cosford becomes the centre of RAF tech trg)
Swansea Airport (Vigilants will go from civvy airport)
RAF Topcliffe, Allanbrooke Barracks (this would be the last public funded flying so could see the airfield close)
RAF Tern Hill (airfield stays open for DHFS activities)
RAF Woodvale (airfield stays open for UAS/AEF)
However, RAF Kenley, MDP Wethersfield, RNAS Predannack and RAF Kirknewton currently operate the Viking and are outwith any day to day full-time support from the military. So this could see the Viking introduced at RAF Cosford, RAF Halton, Kinloss, RAF Odiham, RAF Woodvale, RAF Topcliffe and RAF Tern Hill where DIO currently has to support an airfield with other on-going public funded flying.
So savings made through the closure of airfields at:
Abingdon, Arbroath (RMB Condor), RMB Chivenor, RAF Henlow, RAF Honington, RAF Little Rissington, RAF Kenley, RAF Topcliffe, MDP Wethersfield and RAF Kirknewton. The sale of this land could see a nice return of revenue to the Treasury. The sale of St Athan and RAF Linton on Ouse has already been announced.
Future Air Cadet gliding could be available at:
RAF Cosford
RAF Halton
Hullavington Airfield, Buckley Barracks
Kinloss Airfield, Kinloss Barracks
RAF Odiham
RNAS Predannack or RMB Chivenor (TBD)
RAF Syerston (HQ 2FTS)
RAF Tern Hill
Upavon Airfield, Trenchard Lines
RAF Woodvale
With the possibility of opening up Air Cadet gliding on the following sites:
RAF Leuchars (Waterloo Barracks - currently Lossie weather div and home of UAS/AEF and fills loss of Kirknewton)
RAF Leeming (capacity for weekend gliding and fills loss of Linton and Topcliffe)
RAF St Athan - keep an enclave for South Wales for VGS/UAS/AEF
So that's 13 locations delivering gliding with ~80 Vikings. So approximately 4 per VGS and always around 15-20 in servicing.
Then, with MFTS coming on line, then the excess Tutors could go to the AEFs to offer extra flying to the increased numbers of the Air Cadets.
Right, that's the Air Cadets sorted out...
...now for the rest.
I'm hearing rumours on a need to re-open the WSO pipeline and an increase in WSOps plus more pilots (FJ and ME with the possibility of crossing over some RW pilots) and that means the following is most likely coming:
- More Reapers under Project SCAVENGER
- Run on of the Tornado GR4 awaiting delivery of some more Typhoons
- A maritime patrol aircraft (P8 or other)
- MFTS expansion to deliver increased manpower (with more QFIs needed)
- Increase in techies going through RAF Cosford (which is why DCTT Lyneham has ceased)
I think we will see the reduction of Field Sqns in the RAF Regt. I would hope we see Admin branches (Scribbly, Trg and PEd) thinned dwon into FTRS and Civil Service posts.
There you go, that fills my rumours into what I think might happen...whilst watching the Cenotaph Ceremony.
LJ
Last edited by Lima Juliet; 22nd Nov 2015 at 13:50.
I would hope we would see the Admin branches (Scribbly, Trg PEd) thinned down in to FTRS and Civil Service posts
Melchy
We're already at that point. All of my admin support is done via email these days - if I go to Handbrake House personally for something it normally results in "can you send me an email" request to further my issue.
If Handbrake House was dissolved into a call centre then I personally would see no difference!
LJ
We're already at that point. All of my admin support is done via email these days - if I go to Handbrake House personally for something it normally results in "can you send me an email" request to further my issue.
If Handbrake House was dissolved into a call centre then I personally would see no difference!
LJ
I don't think L-J was saying that the requirement for admin role would cease, just questioning why it needs to be a high-churn, low-experience role for regular uniformed personnel.
The sheer amount of administrative support we now move into forward areas has been questioned repeatedly; especially as we seem to have a further army of admin staff back in the UK checking and questioning what is happening on deployed locations. Why do we not do it remotely? Heck, we have already shown that we can operate aircraft remotely!
Even if a small footprint is required in forward roles the use of reservists, FTRA, civil servants and contractors is already well exercised. I have deployed in very forward roles accompanied by individuals who are technically civil servants (albeit rather specialist ones). Meanwhile we have a uniformed scribbly and a uniformed PTI on the more comfortable side of the wire.
Edit: L-J beat me to it.
The sheer amount of administrative support we now move into forward areas has been questioned repeatedly; especially as we seem to have a further army of admin staff back in the UK checking and questioning what is happening on deployed locations. Why do we not do it remotely? Heck, we have already shown that we can operate aircraft remotely!
Even if a small footprint is required in forward roles the use of reservists, FTRA, civil servants and contractors is already well exercised. I have deployed in very forward roles accompanied by individuals who are technically civil servants (albeit rather specialist ones). Meanwhile we have a uniformed scribbly and a uniformed PTI on the more comfortable side of the wire.
Edit: L-J beat me to it.
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Seems reasonably predictive
Leon Jabachjabicz,
Looks like you've been listening at someone's door fairly well up the food chain !
However, due to the need to finance Tax credits it has been announced that all HM Armed services are to be made redundant by April 5th. The new Defence contract is to be awarded to Group 54 or Serko using "Modern apprenticeships" based on advances in technology in shelf stacking training. With CBT future Drone pilots will pay for their own on line courses, and will work part time, with minimum wage supplemented by zero hours contracts at leading supermarkets
Fat jet jocks will be selected from Drone trainees, and given advanced training at John Lewis Partnership - where they are appropriately, never knowingly undersold.
Trucking fleet requirements will be met initially by Ryansquare, who have particular expertise in flying to the world's most remote airfields. Casevac sorties when required will be operated by sqeezyjet as a continuation of their Familiar tourist evacuation expertise.
CAS will still be required, thus HM Chief Inspector of Constabulary will be posted in, as his work with the Police is now completed, and where it has been demonstrated that an Accountancy qualification overrides the need for any process knowledge or qualifications.
It is expected that parallel arrangements will be made to cover Land forces, and Naval in due course, with a possibility that China may be awarded a contract to roll over from the Hinkley Point Nuclear power station, where the double price electricity supply contract will generate some income to finance a new Home Guard and some coastal lifeboats so as to employ as many Redundant Genrals and Admirals as possible.
Any questions Bloggs ?
Looks like you've been listening at someone's door fairly well up the food chain !
However, due to the need to finance Tax credits it has been announced that all HM Armed services are to be made redundant by April 5th. The new Defence contract is to be awarded to Group 54 or Serko using "Modern apprenticeships" based on advances in technology in shelf stacking training. With CBT future Drone pilots will pay for their own on line courses, and will work part time, with minimum wage supplemented by zero hours contracts at leading supermarkets
Fat jet jocks will be selected from Drone trainees, and given advanced training at John Lewis Partnership - where they are appropriately, never knowingly undersold.
Trucking fleet requirements will be met initially by Ryansquare, who have particular expertise in flying to the world's most remote airfields. Casevac sorties when required will be operated by sqeezyjet as a continuation of their Familiar tourist evacuation expertise.
CAS will still be required, thus HM Chief Inspector of Constabulary will be posted in, as his work with the Police is now completed, and where it has been demonstrated that an Accountancy qualification overrides the need for any process knowledge or qualifications.
It is expected that parallel arrangements will be made to cover Land forces, and Naval in due course, with a possibility that China may be awarded a contract to roll over from the Hinkley Point Nuclear power station, where the double price electricity supply contract will generate some income to finance a new Home Guard and some coastal lifeboats so as to employ as many Redundant Genrals and Admirals as possible.
Any questions Bloggs ?
Last edited by EnigmAviation; 8th Nov 2015 at 14:02. Reason: Change of reference to earlier post
LJ,
True, but who answers (assuming they do!) your emails - a blue suiter or an E1 clerk pretending to be equivalent to a WO and yet who displays all the forethought and initiative of a sloth on strike?
Now I know not all CS are created equally, and there are some who do are cracking job; indeed I was fortunate in my last 2 posts to have a D-band at each location who really did stack up to the Flt Lt equivalent many like to portray. Alas, they are the minority in my experience. I get where you're coming from, but it really does fall into the bracket of be careful what you wish for.
Anyway, if it's rumours we're after, a couple of wholly unsubstantiated but potentially credible rumours:
F-35 buy limited to the absolute minimum to generate and sustain 2 sqns, so 25-30 taking into account OCU, servicing, the odd spare. USMC goes apoplectic as its buy is then put at risk and we come up with some sort of merger agreement to create a joint-combined RAF/RN/USMC operational fleet.
To make up the numbers, cash thrown at Typhoon to give a true swing role capability. T1 Tiffies given an upgrade to generate 2-3 sqns of pure AD ac with little to no attack/interdiction capability. GR4 retired on time and NLT 1 Apr 1918 to coincide with a victory over ISIL parade.
Sentinel and E3 to go to make way for new MPA, potentially Poseidon, but sold by as a MMA platform capable of plugging the gap created by retiring 2 completely unrelated capabilities. Originator of that plan 'retires' and gets a cushy job at Boeing.
2-3 further sqns of Reaper, taking us to 4-5 sqns total, with Sentinel's GMTI role picked up by Reaper and whatever passes for ASaC going forward.
RAF Regt to lose more Field Sqns. Gyms either closed down or opened up as local community facilities to generate revenue for Stations who will be required to produce a surplus each year to return to Centre.
True, but who answers (assuming they do!) your emails - a blue suiter or an E1 clerk pretending to be equivalent to a WO and yet who displays all the forethought and initiative of a sloth on strike?
Now I know not all CS are created equally, and there are some who do are cracking job; indeed I was fortunate in my last 2 posts to have a D-band at each location who really did stack up to the Flt Lt equivalent many like to portray. Alas, they are the minority in my experience. I get where you're coming from, but it really does fall into the bracket of be careful what you wish for.
Anyway, if it's rumours we're after, a couple of wholly unsubstantiated but potentially credible rumours:
F-35 buy limited to the absolute minimum to generate and sustain 2 sqns, so 25-30 taking into account OCU, servicing, the odd spare. USMC goes apoplectic as its buy is then put at risk and we come up with some sort of merger agreement to create a joint-combined RAF/RN/USMC operational fleet.
To make up the numbers, cash thrown at Typhoon to give a true swing role capability. T1 Tiffies given an upgrade to generate 2-3 sqns of pure AD ac with little to no attack/interdiction capability. GR4 retired on time and NLT 1 Apr 1918 to coincide with a victory over ISIL parade.
Sentinel and E3 to go to make way for new MPA, potentially Poseidon, but sold by as a MMA platform capable of plugging the gap created by retiring 2 completely unrelated capabilities. Originator of that plan 'retires' and gets a cushy job at Boeing.
2-3 further sqns of Reaper, taking us to 4-5 sqns total, with Sentinel's GMTI role picked up by Reaper and whatever passes for ASaC going forward.
RAF Regt to lose more Field Sqns. Gyms either closed down or opened up as local community facilities to generate revenue for Stations who will be required to produce a surplus each year to return to Centre.
Last edited by Melchett01; 8th Nov 2015 at 16:32.
EnigmAviation
I don't need to listen to doors, the deafening silence makes the situation quite easy to read. I also hear that recruiting is on the 'up and up' due to the recent undershoot of SDSR10's manpower plan. Also that the WSO situation is getting bad for the legacy fleets let alone any new buys (guys are being called that retired 3-4 years ago).
We need some of those disgruntled Air Cadets to join...if only we had some gliding to 'wet their whistle' with!
Personally, I think we have 'screwed the pooch"!
LJ
I don't need to listen to doors, the deafening silence makes the situation quite easy to read. I also hear that recruiting is on the 'up and up' due to the recent undershoot of SDSR10's manpower plan. Also that the WSO situation is getting bad for the legacy fleets let alone any new buys (guys are being called that retired 3-4 years ago).
We need some of those disgruntled Air Cadets to join...if only we had some gliding to 'wet their whistle' with!
Personally, I think we have 'screwed the pooch"!
LJ
Easy answer to that - none whatsoever. The UK no longer has sufficient aerodromes, training aircraft or QFIs to support anything more then the handful of military pilots undergoing flying training these days....
So coping with a pilot training surge requirement? No chance whatsoever
So coping with a pilot training surge requirement? No chance whatsoever
Now one hears that, beyond Shawbury, there are significant problems delivering new crews to the front line units - but your post relates to training aircraft/empires rather than OCU-level issues. And a nasty cynical person would suggest that any current surge at Shawbury is only to build up a pool of people ready for the train wreck which will be MFTS. But, right now, the rotary side of the sausage machine is in fine fettle. Producing mere chipolatas compared to your heroic FW bratties, of course, but still producing
.
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Enigma
We could learn a lot from John Lewis !!
Happy Staff
Well Paid
Shareholders in the solution
Great Customer service
Flexible
Good Quality Products
Competitive prices
Great locations
Thin Management Structure
Rely on staff to act on their own initiative
Career progression
Yeah - we could learn a lot from them.................
Arc
We could learn a lot from John Lewis !!
Happy Staff
Well Paid
Shareholders in the solution
Great Customer service
Flexible
Good Quality Products
Competitive prices
Great locations
Thin Management Structure
Rely on staff to act on their own initiative
Career progression
Yeah - we could learn a lot from them.................
Arc
Perhaps the new Stn Cdr Boulmer will make it happen?
Gentleman Aviator
Leon
Not sure why you need Ternhill and Cosford as they are so close. Facilities are so much better at TH, due to their use of the planned-but-never-used permanently detached DHFS Sqn building.
Prole
Although a smaller force (at the moment
) Canada has been training Air Traffickers and "Engagement Controllers" (as they call their FCs/AMBs) together for years.........
Future Air Cadet gliding could be available at:
RAF Cosford
RAF Halton
Hullavington Airfield, Buckley Barracks
Kinloss Airfield, Kinloss Barracks
RAF Odiham
RNAS Predannack or RMB Chivenor (TBD)
RAF Syerston (HQ 2FTS)
RAF Tern Hill
Upavon Airfield, Trenchard Lines
RAF Woodvale
RAF Cosford
RAF Halton
Hullavington Airfield, Buckley Barracks
Kinloss Airfield, Kinloss Barracks
RAF Odiham
RNAS Predannack or RMB Chivenor (TBD)
RAF Syerston (HQ 2FTS)
RAF Tern Hill
Upavon Airfield, Trenchard Lines
RAF Woodvale
Prole
Although a smaller force (at the moment
) Canada has been training Air Traffickers and "Engagement Controllers" (as they call their FCs/AMBs) together for years.........