Lord West miffed as RAF to control carriers
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Good reply from MSOCS. Who cares anyway what colour he is, as long as he is super competent at what he meant to be doing? If he isn't, then get another suit in to do it.
Its simply the perception continuing about the project, that this is general British military incompetence that should be worrying. Literally hundreds of comments about this on the newspaper websites and most of them are negative. Gradually this rubs off on people and demoralises them.
Its simply the perception continuing about the project, that this is general British military incompetence that should be worrying. Literally hundreds of comments about this on the newspaper websites and most of them are negative. Gradually this rubs off on people and demoralises them.
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If the Navy kick off saying it is a boat, one could always mention Yeovilton.. Will this mean further mods to the Carriers as they weld onto the rear deck a hotel suite? 
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OK MSOCS,
Lets say he does have sufficient Maritime SQEP to advise him why stop there? Presumably we can have an EngO as Stn Cdr on a flying unit because he/she will have their Sqn Cdrs to advise them, or an RAF Regt Officer as AOC 1 Gp because he will have SQEP to advise him.
Now I know Im being deliberately confrontational because I accept that AM Hillier is delivering a capability and not necessarily commanding it, but it might have helped if at least he had a bit of previous knowledge to help him out. What I find most alarming is that with the huge number of VSO's that we have none have any experience in one of the UKs biggest ever procurement programmes.
Lets say he does have sufficient Maritime SQEP to advise him why stop there? Presumably we can have an EngO as Stn Cdr on a flying unit because he/she will have their Sqn Cdrs to advise them, or an RAF Regt Officer as AOC 1 Gp because he will have SQEP to advise him.
Now I know Im being deliberately confrontational because I accept that AM Hillier is delivering a capability and not necessarily commanding it, but it might have helped if at least he had a bit of previous knowledge to help him out. What I find most alarming is that with the huge number of VSO's that we have none have any experience in one of the UKs biggest ever procurement programmes.
Post 13 offers a hint, surely?
If we can sub-let Voyagers to make a few quid, think of how big the cruise market is these days. All that space on a flat deck to lay out the sun-beds, direct flights from ashore to bring on the passengers......
If we can sub-let Voyagers to make a few quid, think of how big the cruise market is these days. All that space on a flat deck to lay out the sun-beds, direct flights from ashore to bring on the passengers......
Thread Starter
If we can sub-let Voyagers to make a few quid, think of how big the cruise market is these days. All that space on a flat deck to lay out the sun-beds, direct flights from ashore to bring on the passengers......
Set sail with Britain's foremost carrier strike force, share a hammock with a genuine salty old dog of the sea, see the golden rivet, experience the thrill of sailing into battle at very short notice and still do all the normal cruise stuff on our ample and spacious open air lounge deck!! Other attractions include a daily two can beer raton and the occasional no notice general quarters exercise!!! Or whatever they call it.
FB
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Aircraft carriers carry aircraft to defend the carrier which needs defending because it carries aircraft which defend the .........
(Yes, I know it's old school but how much of the UK's future carrier capability is still a self-licking lollipop?)
(Yes, I know it's old school but how much of the UK's future carrier capability is still a self-licking lollipop?)
Arguably much less of a self licking ice cream than a fleet composed solely of frigates and destroyers, given that it has much more potential to deliver real military effect. The question of course is how far UK politicians are interested in enabling the asset to fulfil its potential. There's just a glimmer of a chance that the SDSR will look at that.
Re OP, I tend to agree with those who think it's less of an issue than it is a good tabloid headline.
Originally Posted by Cows getting bigger
Aircraft carriers carry aircraft to defend the carrier which needs defending because it carries aircraft which defend the .........
(Yes, I know it's old school but how much of the UK's future carrier capability is still a self-licking lollipop?)
(Yes, I know it's old school but how much of the UK's future carrier capability is still a self-licking lollipop?)
Last edited by FODPlod; 26th Oct 2015 at 14:30.
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Autobit,
If, in this particular case, the measure of SQEP lies in how much time one has spent onboard a big-deck carrier then there are very few and probably none at the highest levels of Defence with that experience. However, most appreciate there are many at the coal face serving today on USN CVNs getting the experience the UK needs for the future. This all takes time. So it'll be a while until a 3 or 4-star has such.
In the meantime we have some very Joint and excellent VSOs who are very adept at running capital programmes for the UK.
I believe the choice in AM Hillier reflects that rationale. He has previously sat on the CEPP Executive Steering Board as a senior member in his role as DCDS(Eqpt and Cap) He understands the programme extremely well and has the relationships at hand to forge success. If he didn't he would not have been selected; it's simple as that.
Unfortunately, retired, parochial 1SLs see this as an affront. Yet more zest in the eye of Royal Naval capability. Ludicrous comments such as, "...barking mad" in tabloid farcical media stories only shows the rest of the country and world that they don't understand what Joint means. When the RN last put to sea on a large deck carrier, they owned their embarked aircraft. That isn't the case any more and nor will it be. The aircraft are Joint assets. The Carrier Strike Programme is Joint and the latest VSO at the helm is Joint.
If, in this particular case, the measure of SQEP lies in how much time one has spent onboard a big-deck carrier then there are very few and probably none at the highest levels of Defence with that experience. However, most appreciate there are many at the coal face serving today on USN CVNs getting the experience the UK needs for the future. This all takes time. So it'll be a while until a 3 or 4-star has such.
In the meantime we have some very Joint and excellent VSOs who are very adept at running capital programmes for the UK.
I believe the choice in AM Hillier reflects that rationale. He has previously sat on the CEPP Executive Steering Board as a senior member in his role as DCDS(Eqpt and Cap) He understands the programme extremely well and has the relationships at hand to forge success. If he didn't he would not have been selected; it's simple as that.
Unfortunately, retired, parochial 1SLs see this as an affront. Yet more zest in the eye of Royal Naval capability. Ludicrous comments such as, "...barking mad" in tabloid farcical media stories only shows the rest of the country and world that they don't understand what Joint means. When the RN last put to sea on a large deck carrier, they owned their embarked aircraft. That isn't the case any more and nor will it be. The aircraft are Joint assets. The Carrier Strike Programme is Joint and the latest VSO at the helm is Joint.
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"we have some very Joint and excellent VSOs who are very adept at running capital programmes for the UK."
where have they been for the last 30 years?
MoD programmes are notorious for being late, wayyyyy over budget and lacking in features originally spec'd -maybe it was all teh fault of those wicked Civil Servants and politco's tho'
where have they been for the last 30 years?
MoD programmes are notorious for being late, wayyyyy over budget and lacking in features originally spec'd -maybe it was all teh fault of those wicked Civil Servants and politco's tho'
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They say that common sense and comedy are two sides of the same thing running at different speeds.
What worries me (as a mere civvie) is that so much of the banter on this site amply demonstrates that service tribalism has often replaced common sense in the equation.
Which means that the banter is no longer funny and rather generates a certain sadness.
Aren't you all supposed to be in this together against the enemies of our Sovereign Queen?
Like alfred_the_great, I call the O/P as a wah.
What worries me (as a mere civvie) is that so much of the banter on this site amply demonstrates that service tribalism has often replaced common sense in the equation.
Which means that the banter is no longer funny and rather generates a certain sadness.
Aren't you all supposed to be in this together against the enemies of our Sovereign Queen?
Like alfred_the_great, I call the O/P as a wah.
Gilbert and Sullivan
The First Lord's Song
"HMS Pinafore"
I know that I am not the only one smiling at this....
"Stick close by your desks and never go to sea"....... ..etc.etc.
The First Lord's Song
"HMS Pinafore"
I know that I am not the only one smiling at this....
"Stick close by your desks and never go to sea"....... ..etc.etc.
Originally Posted by Sun Who
Who appointed him?