Russia sends four SU27s to Syria
Russians obviously don't believe in intra-aircraft Quantity Distances or seem concerned about sympathetic detonations 
Then again, the loss of a few frames wouldn't cripple them
Then again, the loss of a few frames wouldn't cripple them
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RH200, that's your opinion and you're entitled to it. Personally, I believe governments have a moral duty to do their best to avoid killing the innocent. Killing innocent people achieves nothing other than making more enemies.
Barnstormer, as far as I'm aware, ROE were never intended to protect the military. They were intended to protect civilians. I won't deny that they can get a bit ridiculous - I think Afghanistan was proof of that.
Barnstormer, as far as I'm aware, ROE were never intended to protect the military. They were intended to protect civilians. I won't deny that they can get a bit ridiculous - I think Afghanistan was proof of that.
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Joint..."I believe governments have a moral duty to do their best to avoid killing the innocent. Killing innocent people achieves nothing other than making more enemies."
The French people in WWII accepted/anticipated casualties from our bombing.
The French people in WWII accepted/anticipated casualties from our bombing.
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If anyone wants to know what is happening inside Syria the website of The Syrian Observatory for Human Rights is a good source.
Syrian Observatory For Human Rights | Syrian Observatory For Human Rights
And here is an interesting map:
Syrian Observatory For Human Rights | Syrian Observatory For Human Rights
And here is an interesting map:
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This report says that the Chinese are on their way to Syria, including a 'naval vessel' which has just passed through Suez, and 'aerial assets' which are on their way. May be hearsay or trolling but would be a very interesting development if true.
fait accompli, due to the US's half hearted attempts to squash ISIL, its now an opportunity for all comers who want to increase their influence in the area. Obama has sunk any potential to extend influence in the area.
As far as ROE, JSF's comments do have a degree of truth in them. ROE in Somalia in the 90s put those of us at a tactical disadvantage with the locals.
As far as ROE, JSF's comments do have a degree of truth in them. ROE in Somalia in the 90s put those of us at a tactical disadvantage with the locals.
fait accompli, due to the US's half hearted attempts to squash ISIL, its now an opportunity for all comers who want to increase their influence in the area. Obama has sunk any potential to extend influence in the area.
As far as ROE, JSF's comments do have a degree of truth in them. ROE in Somalia in the 90s put those of us at a tactical disadvantage with the locals.
As far as ROE, JSF's comments do have a degree of truth in them. ROE in Somalia in the 90s put those of us at a tactical disadvantage with the locals.
What your saw in Somalia hasn't gotten much better, from what I saw, and in some cases it may have gotten worse.
In Somalia we were read ROE based in a humanitarian mission in hazardous zone. The Clinton administration and the UN morphed that into a primarily combatant role without changing the ROE. This evidenced at all levels of the planning, execution and logistics. Those ROE limitations seem to me to match up with what JSF said. Within the narrow scope of my experiences, he nailed it.
In Somalia we were read ROE based in a humanitarian mission in hazardous zone. The Clinton administration and the UN morphed that into a primarily combatant role without changing the ROE. This evidenced at all levels of the planning, execution and logistics. Those ROE limitations seem to me to match up with what JSF said. Within the narrow scope of my experiences, he nailed it.
I am sad to repeat that, as I posted, the problem with that piece of the RoE remains an obstacle to operations at a lot of levels. Since war is the child of politics, I don't think that piece of it will change any time soon.
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ROE were never intended to protect the military. They were intended to protect civilians. I won't deny that they can get a bit ridiculous - I think Afghanistan was proof of that.
Ground forces ROE are (generally) a different matter.
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Lonewolf
ROE are both interesting and sometimes beyond ridiculous in some cases IMHO.
Perhaps your mention of an NDA suggests you have seen some odd ones too.
From my own experience civilians didn't even always get a mention, let alone be protected.
Of course, some historically famous events had ROE that had civilians as the intended target, either directly or indirectly which is why I bit to JSFs' post. Events like the WW2 bombing of Dresden, Hiroshima or Nagasaki spring to mind as direct targeting while the dambusters raid killed very many civilians of all ages as an indirect consequence.
ROE are both interesting and sometimes beyond ridiculous in some cases IMHO.
Perhaps your mention of an NDA suggests you have seen some odd ones too.
From my own experience civilians didn't even always get a mention, let alone be protected.
Of course, some historically famous events had ROE that had civilians as the intended target, either directly or indirectly which is why I bit to JSFs' post. Events like the WW2 bombing of Dresden, Hiroshima or Nagasaki spring to mind as direct targeting while the dambusters raid killed very many civilians of all ages as an indirect consequence.
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I see the media is now saying Putin-Assad is a least bad option.
@Barnstormer: in a nutshell, yes.
@PersonFromPorlock: I like the way you put that. Too bad the desire to draw red lines prevented our political leadership from making that very assessment. Oh well, pols make mistakes. I wonder if the "success" with the Mad Colonel from Lybia influenced the mistakes in Syria, in terms of assuming a cookie cutter ... my money is betting the over on that one.
@PersonFromPorlock: I like the way you put that. Too bad the desire to draw red lines prevented our political leadership from making that very assessment. Oh well, pols make mistakes. I wonder if the "success" with the Mad Colonel from Lybia influenced the mistakes in Syria, in terms of assuming a cookie cutter ... my money is betting the over on that one.
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Lots of new Latakia images:
Cavok Brasil ? Aviação e Fotografia - SÍRIA: Imagens atualizadas sobre a presença militar russa em Latakia
Plenty of analysis opportunities in that lot.
Cavok Brasil ? Aviação e Fotografia - SÍRIA: Imagens atualizadas sobre a presença militar russa em Latakia
Plenty of analysis opportunities in that lot.