Soviet Ekranoplan 'Lun'
Originally Posted by KenV
If it was a carrier being targetted, the Lun would have been spotted hundreds of miles from the carrier and the carrier's aircraft would have killed it well before it could have launched its missiles. A single hit from a Maverick would likely have done the job.
Your statement about Doppler is interesting. The Lun may be travelling at over 500kph, but a USN aircraft carrier with no Doppler shift at all is a massive radar target. Even the Lun's Puluchas radar could find that.
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Range of a Maverick against the range of a P-270? SS-N-22 launched from 120km, flies at 20 metres and Mach 3. And that was the Lun, what, nearly 40 years ago?
Also the range of the Maverick is irrelevant, it is the range of the maverick (or similar) plus the range of the launch platform that matters...and that is well in favour of the defending unit especially as it can do it's own targetting as well as use third party.
Long story short...sending these up against a modern battlegroup would require the services of an old Japanese Divine Wind instructor.
Photos and, at the bottom, 10 minute video with VERY odd soundtrack, and a bit on Boeing Pelican
Dark Roasted Blend: The Ekranoplans Showcase, Part 1
Dark Roasted Blend: The Ekranoplans Showcase, Part 1
Not "cherry picking" anything, TOFO, just pointing out that for its time it was something a carrier group would want to keep at arm's length.
I do kind of understand how the range of an air-launched missile works, but thanks for the help.
I do kind of understand how the range of an air-launched missile works, but thanks for the help.
Originally Posted by Cows getting bigger
I would wager it would beat an F35 in a turning fight. 
Seriously, noting the likely susceptibility of a 300+ ton WIG vessel to losing it by digging in a wing and flipping when banking in a tight turn, I doubt it. Ever attempted a tight turn in a medium performance RIB at top speed (and that's only about 30 kts)?
I believe the F-35 is intended to take a 9g turn giving it a radius of curvature of about 1 km. I doubt the Lun could even approach that manoeuvrability, especially at 300 kts, and don't forget it doesn't have keel in the water (much like a hovercraft) to prevent lateral slew. Even the turning circle of a largish displacement vessel at relatively low speed might surprise you by its size.
Good job there's some sailors on here, innit?
"In general terms, if this beast was really a threat, USN weapons and tactics would have been developed and/or modified to counter the threat."
that sounds reasonable
that sounds reasonable
FOD, I don't think CGB really needed that full explanation.
By "radius of curvature" do you mean "turn radius"? As to your calculation, a good attempt. It would all depend on what speed (TAS) the aircraft hits 9g. The higher that speed, the bigger the turn radius. At, say 450kts that would be about 2400 feet, so you weren't that far out - far enough to make a big difference when it comes to fighter comparison, though.
Good job there's some aircrew on here, innit?
By "radius of curvature" do you mean "turn radius"? As to your calculation, a good attempt. It would all depend on what speed (TAS) the aircraft hits 9g. The higher that speed, the bigger the turn radius. At, say 450kts that would be about 2400 feet, so you weren't that far out - far enough to make a big difference when it comes to fighter comparison, though.
Good job there's some aircrew on here, innit?
Last edited by Courtney Mil; 5th Jul 2015 at 11:57.
The Ekranoplan project was in a sense comparable to the F-35B or airborne nuclear power or the P6M in that, even if it worked, it was hard to see what critical strategic capability it brought to the party. The Sovs already had ships, subs and Backfires targeting carriers. Of course you could argue that it's hard to torpedo a WIG, or hit it at great range with a Phoenix or SM, and that it may be too fast for a Harpoon's tracking logic, but a Maverick could be bodged to take it on quite easily. Then add the range and sea state limits... Eventually the Orlyonok was designed as an amphib warfare transport, but it was hard to see what it did that the Soviet ACVs couldn't.
The Pelican was fun. Completely barking, but fun.
http://www.popsci.com/military-aviat.../monster-20-ft
The Pelican was fun. Completely barking, but fun.
http://www.popsci.com/military-aviat.../monster-20-ft
Last edited by LowObservable; 5th Jul 2015 at 14:56.
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I do kind of understand how the range of an air-launched missile works, but thanks for the help.
as it happens...
There's probably a good reason they only built one of them. They weren't completely stupid.
There's probably a good reason they only built one of them. They weren't completely stupid.
"Mildly" Eccentric Stardriver
I had a colleague who subscribed to the fact that wave-lift reduced fuel consumption. IIRC that requires flying at about half-a-wingspan over the sea. This he did almost every time, in a high-wing mini-airliner, without a rad-alt!!
"The ideal anti-Ekranoplan weapon would be the A-10. One pass, one burst, and saw the bleeder in half."
Ekranoplan would probably be equipped with some A-A missiles but more probably it would have fighter support... A-10s are very efficient against Taliban and similar cavemen but I doubt they would resist salvo of soviet missiles.
Ekranoplan would probably be equipped with some A-A missiles but more probably it would have fighter support... A-10s are very efficient against Taliban and similar cavemen but I doubt they would resist salvo of soviet missiles.
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[QUOTE]Range of a Maverick against the range of a P-270? SS-N-22 launched from 120km, flies at 20 metres and Mach 3. And that was the Lun, what, nearly 40 years ago? [/QUOTE
Ummmm, a Maverick is carried by a jet aircraft. The range of the jet aircraft is considerably greater than 120km. The carrier's embarked E-2 Hawkeye can detect and track the Lun hundreds of miles beyond the Lun's surface search radar's horizon. It would be dead before it could get within range to detect the carrier on its radar, never mind within range to launch its missiles.
Ummmm, a Maverick is carried by a jet aircraft. The range of the jet aircraft is considerably greater than 120km. The carrier's embarked E-2 Hawkeye can detect and track the Lun hundreds of miles beyond the Lun's surface search radar's horizon. It would be dead before it could get within range to detect the carrier on its radar, never mind within range to launch its missiles.