RAF Pilot Tour lengths, etc
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RAF Pilot Tour lengths, etc
Hi guys,
Currently on IOT prior to pilot training. My missus is throwing a wobbler about what life entails for me/us over the next 20 years.
If you could provide any info (even if it's just to say there is no definite answer) on the following questions, I would be grateful.
1. How long are flying tours?
2. How long can you spend on operations abroad without time at home as a pilot?
3. What scope is there to do postings abroad (outside of the usual RAF bases). This includes ground tours as well, e.g. working at an embassy.
Any advice would be appreciated.
Cheers!
Todge
Currently on IOT prior to pilot training. My missus is throwing a wobbler about what life entails for me/us over the next 20 years.
If you could provide any info (even if it's just to say there is no definite answer) on the following questions, I would be grateful.
1. How long are flying tours?
2. How long can you spend on operations abroad without time at home as a pilot?
3. What scope is there to do postings abroad (outside of the usual RAF bases). This includes ground tours as well, e.g. working at an embassy.
Any advice would be appreciated.
Cheers!
Todge
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Todger,
In reply to your Question 2, in WWII my dear old Mum didn't see me for 3yrs 7 months. (They were unaccompanied tours in war, so if I had a wife, she'd be left behind as well).
Now things are much better, so count your blessings !
Exigiences of the Service are always paramount.
D.
In reply to your Question 2, in WWII my dear old Mum didn't see me for 3yrs 7 months. (They were unaccompanied tours in war, so if I had a wife, she'd be left behind as well).
Now things are much better, so count your blessings !
Exigiences of the Service are always paramount.
D.
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sorry to be an a$$hole, but shouldn't you have asked all this before you signed up...?
It doesn't help much, but service life is pretty unpredictable and dependent on world events. Any promises you make based on this advice can be completely changed by elements out of your control. Equally, it massively depends on which stream of flying you end up at..
But,... that said, typically, tours are 3 years long, 5 years sometimes in 2 Group. The training process is long and involves several short courses at different locations. Typically, fast jet stream:
1month Cranwell, groundschool
8 months Cranwell/Wittering/Wyton Elementary Flying Training
10 months Linton on Ouse Basic Fast Jet Training
18months Valley, Advanced Fast Jet training, and Weapons training
You could then be posted to rural Lincolnshire or Northern Scotland, or anywhere in between. Between the stated courses there are likely to be holding jobs at other locations of indeterminate length. This will invariably involve moving again.
Otherwise, there will be professional and officer development courses held from 1 week to 4 weeks at other locations like Shrivenham, Cranwell, Northolt, Henlow....etc.
How long on operations overseas....? Hah, no answer here my friend, ask 2 different pilots, get 2 different answers. Tornado F3, almost never deployed, apart from occasional Falklands det, vs Puma Force, almost never at home, 6 month tours in Iraq and Afghanistan with 6 months at home in between if you're lucky.
Scope for working long term overseas is now fairly small and limited to a very small number of specific trades/branches. That said there are opportunities. Embassy work much scaled back and most DA jobs are Wing Commmander or Group Captain level so expect them very far down the line if at all.
I don't mean to be negative, all this change and variation is actually one of the things that attracted me to the forces and makes life interesting. But it can soon become tedious if you are being given hell for it at home. If she's not up for all this upheaval and operating a singly for most of the year while you are away, then my friend you/her have some difficult decisions to make....Good luck.
It doesn't help much, but service life is pretty unpredictable and dependent on world events. Any promises you make based on this advice can be completely changed by elements out of your control. Equally, it massively depends on which stream of flying you end up at..
But,... that said, typically, tours are 3 years long, 5 years sometimes in 2 Group. The training process is long and involves several short courses at different locations. Typically, fast jet stream:
1month Cranwell, groundschool
8 months Cranwell/Wittering/Wyton Elementary Flying Training
10 months Linton on Ouse Basic Fast Jet Training
18months Valley, Advanced Fast Jet training, and Weapons training
You could then be posted to rural Lincolnshire or Northern Scotland, or anywhere in between. Between the stated courses there are likely to be holding jobs at other locations of indeterminate length. This will invariably involve moving again.
Otherwise, there will be professional and officer development courses held from 1 week to 4 weeks at other locations like Shrivenham, Cranwell, Northolt, Henlow....etc.
How long on operations overseas....? Hah, no answer here my friend, ask 2 different pilots, get 2 different answers. Tornado F3, almost never deployed, apart from occasional Falklands det, vs Puma Force, almost never at home, 6 month tours in Iraq and Afghanistan with 6 months at home in between if you're lucky.
Scope for working long term overseas is now fairly small and limited to a very small number of specific trades/branches. That said there are opportunities. Embassy work much scaled back and most DA jobs are Wing Commmander or Group Captain level so expect them very far down the line if at all.
I don't mean to be negative, all this change and variation is actually one of the things that attracted me to the forces and makes life interesting. But it can soon become tedious if you are being given hell for it at home. If she's not up for all this upheaval and operating a singly for most of the year while you are away, then my friend you/her have some difficult decisions to make....Good luck.
Easy answer is to get rid of her
If she's moaning now, she'll only get worse over the coming years and you won't need that grief during pilot training...
And that's just the start
If she's moaning now, she'll only get worse over the coming years and you won't need that grief during pilot training...
And that's just the start
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Todger, you have the bones of it, right questions too late.
FJ2ME has the outline. He didn't mention that a necessary part of flying training is after hours work, social bonding with course mates, and spare social dosh spent on dining in nights, guest nights with the missus plus dress, hair do, and baby sitter.
She is married to you but you to a vocation.
When boss says Fly, the only questions are where and how long. You soon learn to have a go-bag packed.
FJ2ME has the outline. He didn't mention that a necessary part of flying training is after hours work, social bonding with course mates, and spare social dosh spent on dining in nights, guest nights with the missus plus dress, hair do, and baby sitter.
She is married to you but you to a vocation.
When boss says Fly, the only questions are where and how long. You soon learn to have a go-bag packed.
And dont forget that in the increasingly joint world, you may have to go to sea for months on end, and its not unknown for ships to deploy in May, planning to return in July, but not actually getting back until October etc.
And then, later in your career, there's the staff course, with all the work that entails.
Or very long hours in a staff job in the MoD or PJHQ etc.
I was RN rather than RAF but wouldnt have missed it for the world. Fortunately my better half was OK with all that, but its not easy and if she doesnt like it now, it wont get any easier.
And then, later in your career, there's the staff course, with all the work that entails.
Or very long hours in a staff job in the MoD or PJHQ etc.
I was RN rather than RAF but wouldnt have missed it for the world. Fortunately my better half was OK with all that, but its not easy and if she doesnt like it now, it wont get any easier.
The first Mrs W killed my flying career - not entirely her fault but due to insecurity because she did not see her dad until she was 5 because he was away in the war (founder member of the RAF Regt). So every time I got scheduled for detachment she (connived at by her Mother, rot her socks,) produced a sick note from her doctor saying she could not be left. My very serious advice is to get the future straight with your wife, or choose the RAF or her - seriously.
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We bought a house because there were no married quarters where I was posted to, supposedly for a three year tour. Due to "the exigencies of the service" (i.e. a co** up by the posting officer) I was posted to another base 70 miles away after my training course finished; another officer was likewise screwed around by being posted to my slot; because there were no MQs he had also just bought a house before I found out and despite being as p'd off as much as I was about it, wasn't prepared to swap postings.
In the aftermath, which included GW1 and being me moved between fixed wing and rotary wing tours twice, my wife lived in our new house for two and a half years while I was there for a total of about ten months. It caused huge pressure on all of us, especially as we had young kids involved. Because my wife had been put in a situation where she wasn't living on base, she got no support or contact from anyone within the service during my absence.
It got to the situation where I had to choose family or the RAF; I took my 38/16 option and left.
Good luck!
In the aftermath, which included GW1 and being me moved between fixed wing and rotary wing tours twice, my wife lived in our new house for two and a half years while I was there for a total of about ten months. It caused huge pressure on all of us, especially as we had young kids involved. Because my wife had been put in a situation where she wasn't living on base, she got no support or contact from anyone within the service during my absence.
It got to the situation where I had to choose family or the RAF; I took my 38/16 option and left.
Good luck!
It doesn't happen often, indeed it has probably never happened to most in the RAF, but....
One Saturday I was at home with the family, it was about 10pm, we were starting to think about turning in for the night. I was on no form of standby whatsoever, so was quite at liberty to have consumed alcohol, although as it happens I hadn't. I got a phone call from the duty flight commander asking if I was fit to fly, now. I said yes. He said get into work asap, and pack enough kit for a month. About 15 minutes later I left my wife and family, I was back 3 weeks later.
Yes, as I said that sort of situation is unusual/rare, but it can happen, and it's part of what life in a blue suit is all about. How would you wife cope with that situation? The RAF invests considerable amount of time, energy and resources in you, it can call in that investment at any time in your career with little or no prior warning.
It sounds as though you and your wife need to have a good talk about your joint future, and whether the RAF is really a suitable career for you, her, both of you together as a couple, any children you may have. Good luck....
One Saturday I was at home with the family, it was about 10pm, we were starting to think about turning in for the night. I was on no form of standby whatsoever, so was quite at liberty to have consumed alcohol, although as it happens I hadn't. I got a phone call from the duty flight commander asking if I was fit to fly, now. I said yes. He said get into work asap, and pack enough kit for a month. About 15 minutes later I left my wife and family, I was back 3 weeks later.
Yes, as I said that sort of situation is unusual/rare, but it can happen, and it's part of what life in a blue suit is all about. How would you wife cope with that situation? The RAF invests considerable amount of time, energy and resources in you, it can call in that investment at any time in your career with little or no prior warning.
It sounds as though you and your wife need to have a good talk about your joint future, and whether the RAF is really a suitable career for you, her, both of you together as a couple, any children you may have. Good luck....
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Todger, my dear chap, you have a serious problem here. I am afraid that if you are serious about your chosen career the Royal Air Force comes first. Tell her to go back to go back to mummy for the next 20 yrs.
Anyway, you still have many barriers to pass before you are operational. If you have a nagging wife in the background you will not make it. You are so lucky and considered suitable to make it onto the bottom rung, don't blow it.
Try to introduce your wife to wives of operational pilots. Let them tell her the life she is facing and then make a joint decision.
Good luck
Anyway, you still have many barriers to pass before you are operational. If you have a nagging wife in the background you will not make it. You are so lucky and considered suitable to make it onto the bottom rung, don't blow it.
Try to introduce your wife to wives of operational pilots. Let them tell her the life she is facing and then make a joint decision.
Good luck
You need to get her to commit to a decision before the start of flying training, or the stress could distract and thus kill you.
Saw this with the married guy on my flying training. After nearly killing himself at Valley, they had to have a trial separation. Fortunately this worked. She agreed to shut up, he took her back, he lived and they are still married.
Saw it with a guy who married the widow of another FJ pilot. After a while, he took himself off FJ.
Ask her she would feel if you were woken up by a war callout at 5am one morning. It happens. "Where are you going?" "Don't know, I've been told to grab my desert kit". And the answer to her next six questions = "Don't know" x6, plus "Bye, Love. Got to go". I've had that; it tests any relationship. Ask how she would feel when she gets a call from some phone in the middle of the desert, for you to tell her that you have to go direct from the war zone for special duties on the West Coast of the USA, and then direct to the Falklands for QRA - mate of mine had to make that call.
Saw this with the married guy on my flying training. After nearly killing himself at Valley, they had to have a trial separation. Fortunately this worked. She agreed to shut up, he took her back, he lived and they are still married.
Saw it with a guy who married the widow of another FJ pilot. After a while, he took himself off FJ.
Ask her she would feel if you were woken up by a war callout at 5am one morning. It happens. "Where are you going?" "Don't know, I've been told to grab my desert kit". And the answer to her next six questions = "Don't know" x6, plus "Bye, Love. Got to go". I've had that; it tests any relationship. Ask how she would feel when she gets a call from some phone in the middle of the desert, for you to tell her that you have to go direct from the war zone for special duties on the West Coast of the USA, and then direct to the Falklands for QRA - mate of mine had to make that call.
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Fox3WheresMyBanana Coming off FJ unless becoming a scribbly couldn't make much difference surely. I was constantly away in my 'big' FJ. 
As an aside, in my first 10 years in the RAF, including IOT, flying training, holding posts, OCUs and flying tours, I moved location 9 times, and that was not unusual - indeed it's probably less than most aircrew experience at the start of their career.
That doesn't include going away on any of the numerous courses!
That doesn't include going away on any of the numerous courses!
As had been hinted at, I think that a large number of the domestic problems experienced by service personnel originate because they didn't fully explain to their partners about the nomadic lifestyle that they would probably experience.
I thought I was lucky as my first wife was the daughter of a V Crewchief who was always ranging somewhere. She soon forgot all about her father's wanderings and I soon had a life similar to Wander's, complete with MIL's influence.
I thought I was lucky as my first wife was the daughter of a V Crewchief who was always ranging somewhere. She soon forgot all about her father's wanderings and I soon had a life similar to Wander's, complete with MIL's influence.
This has got to be a windup. I can't beleive that someone would go to all the trouble of passing CBAT, an FI, and the naus of OASC, let alone pass OASC and it's interview, and be unaware of these things!
Todger
Perhaps I can offer a small glimmer of light. These days it is entirely possible to have a much more stable career than your predecessors enjoyed. Just look at the aircraft types and you will realise that they are mostly confined to one base nowadays. To give examples from the FJ world, I know guys who have been at Coningsby for several consecutive tours. I also know a guy who started on GR4s at Lossie in 2002/3 and is still there. He has even managed a promotion in that time. This is not always the case of course.
Deployments happen and you will usually have advance notice of them. Again though, this is not always the case.
One of the intended aims of the NEM is to keep people more stationary than previously so there is some hope.
As for overseas tours you will just have to join the queue like everyone else. You may get lucky, you may not.
My final point is just keep an open mind. When I was on IOT I had (what I believed was) a serious girlfriend. We lasted a year and then went our separate ways. I felt the pain that you are experiencing but if you really want to be a pilot then stay the course. If your lady really wants to be with you she will. Even leaving the RAF (in extremis) may not sway her.
As a further example we had a student here last year who VW'd from FJ training to be with his wife who was squinnying. He will now never be an RCAF pilot. The wife? She left him!
It is very easy for us to tell you to dump the missus but do whatever you need to do. Just remember you put in a lot of effort to follow your dream. If you do throw it away, make damn sure it is for the right reasons.
Don't let Cranditz get you down. It's not forever. It's also not much like the real RAF!
BV
Deployments happen and you will usually have advance notice of them. Again though, this is not always the case.
One of the intended aims of the NEM is to keep people more stationary than previously so there is some hope.
As for overseas tours you will just have to join the queue like everyone else. You may get lucky, you may not.
My final point is just keep an open mind. When I was on IOT I had (what I believed was) a serious girlfriend. We lasted a year and then went our separate ways. I felt the pain that you are experiencing but if you really want to be a pilot then stay the course. If your lady really wants to be with you she will. Even leaving the RAF (in extremis) may not sway her.
As a further example we had a student here last year who VW'd from FJ training to be with his wife who was squinnying. He will now never be an RCAF pilot. The wife? She left him!
It is very easy for us to tell you to dump the missus but do whatever you need to do. Just remember you put in a lot of effort to follow your dream. If you do throw it away, make damn sure it is for the right reasons.
Don't let Cranditz get you down. It's not forever. It's also not much like the real RAF!
BV
Good advice BV, and good to hear from the horses mouth what the RAF is now like and it is exactly as i expected. When I was in Kinloss was the only real "flying club" station, i suspect there were others, but i know of more than one that arrived and left 4 ranks better off many moons later.
To the OP, these are questions you should have asked, regardless of your partner before you decided to join. The fact you have not leads me to believe you may be in for something of a shock when you are warned for an OOA and then it is pulled forward because the person you are taking over from is ill, that is one example, there are many more.
To the OP, these are questions you should have asked, regardless of your partner before you decided to join. The fact you have not leads me to believe you may be in for something of a shock when you are warned for an OOA and then it is pulled forward because the person you are taking over from is ill, that is one example, there are many more.
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Follow your dream, man. There are literally thousands of young people in the country who would have loved nothing more than to tear in to that envelope one morning to find the letter inviting them on to the IOT course to become a pilot, but it never happened.
Good luck.
Good luck.
