Non Squawking Russian Bomber Fly Around UK Airspace..
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Russia indicated that increased NATO aircraft have been flying close to Russian borders. No comment from NATO.............. as I would expect.
As for shooting down Airlines somehow RoboCruisers shooting down of an Iran Air Airbus gets forgotten.
As for shooting down Airlines somehow RoboCruisers shooting down of an Iran Air Airbus gets forgotten.
I would hope and expect that NATO countries regularly keep an eye on our arms-length neighbors. That said - I don't know that NATO aircraft flying near Russia have jeopardized commercial aviation - do you know of any such claims / reports?
The Bull-in-the-China-Shop approach apparently being employed by Russia, I think, provides more opportunity for the china to get broken.
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You can all sleep easy in your beds knowing the RAF is now a shadow of it's former Cold War self, apparently there are as many as SIX pilots being trained, ab initio, per annum and RAF stations are being closed and sold off for peanuts to whomsoever has the readies.
And there are plans to sell off the Strategic Supply and Pipeline network which apparently is already being "tapped" by our Eastern European immigrant entrepreneurs for free fuel supplies flogged to anyone with a white van and plastic containers.
And Vlad the Putin is causing a lot of folks to think maybe the Cold War isn't over after all.
But the boy Cameron will make sure we're ok, so don't let any of this rant worry you and cause sleepless moments?
And there are plans to sell off the Strategic Supply and Pipeline network which apparently is already being "tapped" by our Eastern European immigrant entrepreneurs for free fuel supplies flogged to anyone with a white van and plastic containers.
And Vlad the Putin is causing a lot of folks to think maybe the Cold War isn't over after all.
But the boy Cameron will make sure we're ok, so don't let any of this rant worry you and cause sleepless moments?
The bear is indeed antiquated, still bloody impressive performance from a prop though. "Hear and Avoid" is probably more useful than "See and Avoid" with them I'm told.
The Blackjacks, when the Russians save up enough money to fly them, are a different proposition altogether.
I've had the Bears pop up in my airspace before. Didn't cause too much hassle, just had to give some traffic information. I believe a couple of Typhoons went up to say hello that time too, off the West Coast of Ireland.
The Blackjacks, when the Russians save up enough money to fly them, are a different proposition altogether.
I've had the Bears pop up in my airspace before. Didn't cause too much hassle, just had to give some traffic information. I believe a couple of Typhoons went up to say hello that time too, off the West Coast of Ireland.
First time I was involved in intercepting a Bear (tanking a couple of F4s) was almost 43 years ago according to my logbook. Still that was in the far less crowded skies North of the Shetlands. Nipping through the 20 mile wide Straits of Dover is somewhat different. Did the French join in the game? I cant imagine they wouldn't.
The Russians are certainly getting their moneysworth out of these airframes (as are the US out of the B52s), although no doubt they have been extensively modded.
(Just read they didnt get up as far as Dover, but still, it's a new route for them as far as I know)
The Russians are certainly getting their moneysworth out of these airframes (as are the US out of the B52s), although no doubt they have been extensively modded.
(Just read they didnt get up as far as Dover, but still, it's a new route for them as far as I know)
Originally Posted by Tankertrashnav
The Russians are certainly getting their moneysworth out of these airframes (as are the US out of the B52s), although no doubt they have been extensively modded.
The Bear seemed like an antique when they came over to Fairford for RIAT.....and here we are 20 years on, and they are both still in use.
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The double standard amazes me.
So the Russians shot down a commercial airplane that invaded their airspace during an high tension period and did not respond to calls and that's outrageous.
The Americans shot down a commercial Iranian plane while it was over Iranian airspace and that's a non even (no one event mentions it), yeah right...
Although the Kal 007 was a sad event, the shoot down was justified.
Iran Air Flight 655 was completely unjustified.
So the Russians shot down a commercial airplane that invaded their airspace during an high tension period and did not respond to calls and that's outrageous.
The Americans shot down a commercial Iranian plane while it was over Iranian airspace and that's a non even (no one event mentions it), yeah right...
Although the Kal 007 was a sad event, the shoot down was justified.
Iran Air Flight 655 was completely unjustified.
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Originally Posted by glad rag
"N U T S" 
KAL 007: Airplane invades Soviet airspace during an all time high tension during the cold war without warning, airplane does not answer to radio calls. Airplane does not react to tracers fired, airplane is shot down...
After 9/11 the US would have shot down an airplane for FAR LESS.
Iran Air Flight 655: US warship invades Iranian waters and shots down an airplane that was correctly identified, while it was OVER Iranian airspace... not even an apology... Yeah right (and NO ONE discuss this one, only KAL 007).
Of course KAL007 was a sad event, no one is disputing that, but from a purely military viewpoint, yes, it was justified.
Regards.
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@lonewolf
"Not apples to apples, that was a shoot down, and it wasn't (as far as I can tell) the Russians."
Oh, please. There is no difference between Russians and Ukraine "separatists" .
"Not apples to apples, that was a shoot down, and it wasn't (as far as I can tell) the Russians."
Oh, please. There is no difference between Russians and Ukraine "separatists" .
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I'll make it simple for you Toaster.
KAL007 shoot down was a deliberate act since the interceptor pilot could see a B747 in civilian markings with running and cabin lights on. How he could fail to see the jet was full of people is not known. Maybe the Russians just didn't care. In a legal sense it was cold blooded murder.
The Iran Air 655 shoot down was an accident and the cruiser crew thought they were shooting at an F-14 not an A300. A lot of stupidity happened during this incident but it can only be considered manslaughter.
KAL007 shoot down was a deliberate act since the interceptor pilot could see a B747 in civilian markings with running and cabin lights on. How he could fail to see the jet was full of people is not known. Maybe the Russians just didn't care. In a legal sense it was cold blooded murder.
The Iran Air 655 shoot down was an accident and the cruiser crew thought they were shooting at an F-14 not an A300. A lot of stupidity happened during this incident but it can only be considered manslaughter.
A book about KAL007 suggested that KAL pilots were getting bonuses for saving gas. So they cut a corner off the route. We don't know how many times that was done.
A 747 can zip across Kamchatka and Sakhalin in next to no time.
The Russians may not have been ready to intercept over Kamchatka, but once alerted they were likely waiting for KAL007 when it got to Sakhalin.
A 747 can zip across Kamchatka and Sakhalin in next to no time.
The Russians may not have been ready to intercept over Kamchatka, but once alerted they were likely waiting for KAL007 when it got to Sakhalin.
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Correct me if I am wrong by my understanding of those two incidents are:
KL007 was squawking and running with her lights on. After the fall of the wall, the FDR and CVR were finally handed over. It was proven that their deviation was a navigation fault. The pilot had forgotten to switch the INS to NAV. Instead, it continued to follow the magnetic heading. This made it cut into Russian space.
That night, the Russians had been hunting for a US Spy plane that was running in the dark somewhere in the same area. It was intermittently picked up on radar. When the KAL007 flight was picked up on radar, a fighter was sent to intercept it.
The pilot has admitted, in front of a camera, he identified it as the Korean 747, he knew it was a civilian plane. He knew he'd be killing civilians. He never once tried to identify himself to the crew. He just fired at it once ordered to. He also said he would do it again tomorrow if tasked to!
As for the Iran Air A300. If I recall correctly, it was following a completely different departure pattern than all other commercial flights that day. It was not squawking either. It was flying directly toward the US Cruiser which had already been harassed by Iranian F14s earlier in the day. It was also in international waters and sent out several warning, including on civilian frequencies.
Both shoot downs should not have happened. However, they are in different categories.
KAL007 was cold blooded murder.
Iran Air 655 was accidental (Albeit a bit of a setup I feel. It was running without transponder and not listening to radio calls in a WELL KNOWN conflict zone).
KL007 was squawking and running with her lights on. After the fall of the wall, the FDR and CVR were finally handed over. It was proven that their deviation was a navigation fault. The pilot had forgotten to switch the INS to NAV. Instead, it continued to follow the magnetic heading. This made it cut into Russian space.
That night, the Russians had been hunting for a US Spy plane that was running in the dark somewhere in the same area. It was intermittently picked up on radar. When the KAL007 flight was picked up on radar, a fighter was sent to intercept it.
The pilot has admitted, in front of a camera, he identified it as the Korean 747, he knew it was a civilian plane. He knew he'd be killing civilians. He never once tried to identify himself to the crew. He just fired at it once ordered to. He also said he would do it again tomorrow if tasked to!
As for the Iran Air A300. If I recall correctly, it was following a completely different departure pattern than all other commercial flights that day. It was not squawking either. It was flying directly toward the US Cruiser which had already been harassed by Iranian F14s earlier in the day. It was also in international waters and sent out several warning, including on civilian frequencies.
Both shoot downs should not have happened. However, they are in different categories.
KAL007 was cold blooded murder.
Iran Air 655 was accidental (Albeit a bit of a setup I feel. It was running without transponder and not listening to radio calls in a WELL KNOWN conflict zone).
Iran Air 655 was squawking correctly and following its normal commercial air transport route.
The Vincennes should never have been where it was; it was commanded by a gung-ho 'shoot first' captain eager for combat who didn't actually follow the correct RoE.
One of the most disgraceful acts of US aggression ever. The original inquiry was a total whitewash, but the Navy's attempts to cover up the truth were eventually revealed.....
The Vincennes should never have been where it was; it was commanded by a gung-ho 'shoot first' captain eager for combat who didn't actually follow the correct RoE.
One of the most disgraceful acts of US aggression ever. The original inquiry was a total whitewash, but the Navy's attempts to cover up the truth were eventually revealed.....
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KAL 007 "cold blooded murder..?? The Russian pilot was scrambled to intercept what they believed was a four engined boeing (RC135) on a spying mission near a key Soviet base during a period of high tension. He saw a four engined Boeing. He couldn't possibly have read any markings. A planned level change was interpreted as evasive action and his warning shots were probably not seen. The result was sickening but the way the worlds military's are behaving now towards civil aviation, one wonders how long before the next tragedy
PS +1 to above post. Vincennes had been nicknamed "robocruiser" by other USN units prior to the tragedy and ignored orders to leave the area some hours previously. Didn't stop the skipper making Admiral though!
PS +1 to above post. Vincennes had been nicknamed "robocruiser" by other USN units prior to the tragedy and ignored orders to leave the area some hours previously. Didn't stop the skipper making Admiral though!
Last edited by ShotOne; 30th Jan 2015 at 09:15. Reason: Respond to post
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BEags.
Yes, that's my understanding of it, too.
The interesting bit is that the crew of the Vincennes were, at the time, awarded decorations for it and are still entitled to wear them.
Yes, that's my understanding of it, too.
The interesting bit is that the crew of the Vincennes were, at the time, awarded decorations for it and are still entitled to wear them.
Indeed, Stanwell. The captain should have been court-martialled rather than decorated.
Those who choose to believe otherwise should read SEA OF LIES - USS Vincennes shootdown of Iran Air Flight 655 on July 3, 1988 ......
Those who choose to believe otherwise should read SEA OF LIES - USS Vincennes shootdown of Iran Air Flight 655 on July 3, 1988 ......
News reports here in Ireland are suggesting the Bears were intercepted to the west of Ireland by RAF Typhoons and followed from there.
No indication of at what range or whether the RAF jets transited Irish airspace and if so at what speed.
On RTÉ radio this morning an "expert" claimed the VVS aircraft crossed the transatlantic routes without ATC contact and without active transponders while the RAF planes had transponders on at all times.
JAS
No indication of at what range or whether the RAF jets transited Irish airspace and if so at what speed.
On RTÉ radio this morning an "expert" claimed the VVS aircraft crossed the transatlantic routes without ATC contact and without active transponders while the RAF planes had transponders on at all times.
JAS