official, new AF 1 selected.
I did over 7khours in the 747 classic and the majority in the -400. (- not including time in the bunk). The best large aeroplane I was ever involved with and everyone I know involved with the 747-8 say it far better than the -400.
If its not Boeing then ............
If its not Boeing then ............
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Agreed - but then a DC-3 is a similar classic -
the B-52's are not used to land the president in front of the worlds press - it will look VERY old - they may well be the last two flying
Don't understand the 4 engine argument any more
and the maintenance costs will be ..... high
As it has to be FlyAmerica I'd have thought a 777 was a good bet - with newer, miniaturised electronics cp a 747 and they'll be building those for quite a while so you can go for an upgrade later.
the B-52's are not used to land the president in front of the worlds press - it will look VERY old - they may well be the last two flying
Don't understand the 4 engine argument any more
and the maintenance costs will be ..... high
As it has to be FlyAmerica I'd have thought a 777 was a good bet - with newer, miniaturised electronics cp a 747 and they'll be building those for quite a while so you can go for an upgrade later.
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Original quote by Pontius Navigator:
Turbine D, aren't we?
We certainly didn't vote for your leader.
Define Free World?
Turbine D, aren't we?
We certainly didn't vote for your leader.
Define Free World?
There are two ways to look at "Leader of the Free World":
A. The leading democratic superpower
B. An individual "leader" of the superpower
As Presidents and Prime Ministers come and go on a regular basis, I tend to look at it from the democratic superpower viewpoint.
So to be the leading democratic superpower, it takes significant resources, money, defensive and offensive weaponry and a large standing military force.
So, at the moment we, in the U.S., are going to spend 22% of our total Federal budget on Defense spending for fiscal year 2015. That translates into $840 Billion that would roughly equal £559 Billion. It does take a lot of money to keep those 10 aircraft carriers circulating, those 10,000 plus fixed wing aircraft flying, not counting the helicopters or drones along with the U.S. troops stationed in "hot-spots" around the world, including 28,500 in Korea alone. Isn't the total defense spending in the UK about £45.5 Billion for 2015?
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
TD and HH, I was waiting for the bite. 
Democratic is another flexible word.
Deutsches Democratic Republic being one.
The I can think of many allies of the USA where democratic is probably a flogging offense alongside adultery or driving a car.
Then there are other democracies who would consider themselves free but in no way beholden to the US of A.
Leading, most powerful and arguably only superpower is true, but with the might to impose its will on any other power, by definition, means no other power is free.
I am only arguing, from an intellectual point of view, on the use of the words rather than the real politik.
Democratic is another flexible word.
Deutsches Democratic Republic being one.
The I can think of many allies of the USA where democratic is probably a flogging offense alongside adultery or driving a car.
Then there are other democracies who would consider themselves free but in no way beholden to the US of A.
Leading, most powerful and arguably only superpower is true, but with the might to impose its will on any other power, by definition, means no other power is free.
I am only arguing, from an intellectual point of view, on the use of the words rather than the real politik.
It could even be argued that the USA isn't even a true democracy, seeing as the person who gets the most votes regularly isn't elected president.
The U.K. first passed the post system is similarly flawed
The U.K. first passed the post system is similarly flawed
Apologies, that's not the direction I was trying to take things. No offence intended.
Back on topic. An article I read in the spectators balcony forum states that 3 aircraft will be purchased? Surely a mistake? The CNN article linked by the OP states 2
Back on topic. An article I read in the spectators balcony forum states that 3 aircraft will be purchased? Surely a mistake? The CNN article linked by the OP states 2
(OK, the DC-10/MD-11's shape is also kind of unique and easy to recognize.)
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Original post by Una Due Tfc: It could even be argued that the USA isn't even a true democracy, seeing as the person who gets the most votes regularly isn't elected president.
Last edited by Turbine D; 31st Jan 2015 at 00:36. Reason: minor correction
What's the big deal? It will be much easier to install the various bells and whistles the spooks need to include in Air Force One if the aircraft is an American product.
The VH-71 saga is clear evidence of that.
747-8 seems the obvious solution.
I guess it'll even have windows and decent seats, unlike the rendition-class interior of the KC-46A.
The VH-71 saga is clear evidence of that.
747-8 seems the obvious solution.
I guess it'll even have windows and decent seats, unlike the rendition-class interior of the KC-46A.
What's the big deal? It will be much easier to install the various bells and whistles the spooks need to include in Air Force One if the aircraft is an American product.
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"I was wondering how long the likes of HH would take to turn this into a US bashing thread.
Not long."
the trouble with Americans is their lack of a sense of irony - it was the "small country politicians" I was taking a pot shot at. They can only think of a photo-opportunity with the Pres. and how well it plays back home. God knows what the President thinks about it but I'm sure a consummate politican he recognises the need in others.........
POTUS IS the leader of the "Free World" - a hackneyed but useful term - and anyone who thinks otherwise is an idiot
Not long."
the trouble with Americans is their lack of a sense of irony - it was the "small country politicians" I was taking a pot shot at. They can only think of a photo-opportunity with the Pres. and how well it plays back home. God knows what the President thinks about it but I'm sure a consummate politican he recognises the need in others.........
POTUS IS the leader of the "Free World" - a hackneyed but useful term - and anyone who thinks otherwise is an idiot
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"It seems to me that the requirement that it be an american manufactured airframe is purely a political one."
Normally I don't like the of "Buy American" or "Buy British" but in the case of your Head of State it probably is best if they use the best homegrown kit as long as it is approximately competitive
As Mr Boeing employs thousands of Americans it would be really weird to see the President get off an Airbus........................ Airbus would run the pictures non-stop
Normally I don't like the of "Buy American" or "Buy British" but in the case of your Head of State it probably is best if they use the best homegrown kit as long as it is approximately competitive
As Mr Boeing employs thousands of Americans it would be really weird to see the President get off an Airbus........................ Airbus would run the pictures non-stop
Avionker, not unreasonably the US is unwilling to disclose much information about the 'special equipment' needed for Air Force One's mission even to the airframe OEM.
If you look at the problems that caused to the VH-71 programme, it will probably become clearer.
If you look at the problems that caused to the VH-71 programme, it will probably become clearer.
Avionker, not unreasonably the US is unwilling to disclose much information about the 'special equipment' needed for Air Force One's mission even to the airframe OEM.
As I understand it the main problem with the the VH-71 was the continuous moving of the goal posts, adding more and more to the requirement.
Thread Starter
the trouble with Americans is their lack of a sense of irony
Back to the thread.
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West Coast - I have a great admiration and liking for the USA and lived there for many years - I have family and many, many friends states side - I even still pay (some ) taxes there 
I wouldn't say I supported all US policies but then who in the USA does?
I'd like to see some examples of this "hatred" you quote TBH
I really don't think suggesting there are decent alternatives to an old design really puts me in front of the UnAmerican Activities Committee .......
I wouldn't say I supported all US policies but then who in the USA does?
I'd like to see some examples of this "hatred" you quote TBH
I really don't think suggesting there are decent alternatives to an old design really puts me in front of the UnAmerican Activities Committee .......
Thread Starter
Wind it down harry, go back to the thread and contribute or ask questions about AF1. Theres threads in JB if you have issues with the occupant of the plane.
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"according to The Wall Street Journal, the U.S. Air Force has set aside $1.65 billion between 2015 and 2019 for two replacement jets."
Base price for a 747-8 is in the $350-$375mm range - but they have to design, fit and certify a lot of extra kit . Air-to-air refueling is probably the most obvious but all the electronics probably have to be hardened and all the comms gear will cost an arm and a leg.
the current VC-25 is quoted at a unit cost of $325 million cp the commercial cost of around $ 80mm per commercial aircraft so the extra cost look as if it is in proportion
Base price for a 747-8 is in the $350-$375mm range - but they have to design, fit and certify a lot of extra kit . Air-to-air refueling is probably the most obvious but all the electronics probably have to be hardened and all the comms gear will cost an arm and a leg.
the current VC-25 is quoted at a unit cost of $325 million cp the commercial cost of around $ 80mm per commercial aircraft so the extra cost look as if it is in proportion