Answer to SoS for Defence...
Thread Starter
Answer to SoS for Defence...
Secretary of State's speech today: https://www.gov.uk/government/speech...g-fighting-fit
It all depends if you want a capability to bail out public services on strike, Minister...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/defenc...s/14704502931/
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...D_45157632.jpg
...or would the Minister rather we based our capabilities away from the City?
It all depends if you want a capability to help the lack of investment in flood defences and dredging by local government, Minister...
The Rifles Collection ? Operation Pitchpole
Op Pitchpole | Royal Navy
Senior Regiment Officer Visits Gunners on Flood Relief Operations
...I would suggest that your voters would want to know where their help is coming from and where they are going to base that effort from?
It all depends if you make a complete Horlicks of the venue security for a major national event and need the military to sort it out?
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/a...mpics-security
...and then we still consider contractorisation when the contractors let us down time and again?
It all depends if you want to provide a 'point defence' airborne FJ capability in your City, Minister?
Typhoon fighter planes stationed at RAF Northolt in Olympics military build-up | Daily Mail Online
...or are you going to rely on bases further away?
It all depends if you want rapid reaction "boots on the ground" for terrorism, Minister?
400 soldiers patrol Heathrow amid terror fears | Daily Mail Online
...or are you going to rely on capabilities that could arrive after the horse has bolted?
Quite frankly, this comment shows the naivety of the Minister's advisors. Can he really have forgotten Op OLYMPICS, Op FODIENT, Op PITCHPOLE,, and others so quickly - all used MoD bases inside the M25? Was it Comrade Milliband or Balls that assisted him in order to cause the Tories embarassment? There are inaccuracies and errors throughout on the day that has been banded as '100 days to go' to the election. This is shown by this comment that was also blatted out:
Well Minister, I've been in 'the Mob' for a long time and I cannot, EVER, remember signing paperwork to use an IT system - Dii (both flavours), CHots, Jocs, and many more! Someone is telling you 'porky pies' old boy!
So in light of this speech and its inaccuracies, this sentence feeds me with dread:
LJ
"For example, do we need 57 separate sites within the M25?"
https://www.flickr.com/photos/defenc...s/14704502931/
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...D_45157632.jpg
...or would the Minister rather we based our capabilities away from the City?
It all depends if you want a capability to help the lack of investment in flood defences and dredging by local government, Minister...
The Rifles Collection ? Operation Pitchpole
Op Pitchpole | Royal Navy
Senior Regiment Officer Visits Gunners on Flood Relief Operations
...I would suggest that your voters would want to know where their help is coming from and where they are going to base that effort from?
It all depends if you make a complete Horlicks of the venue security for a major national event and need the military to sort it out?
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/a...mpics-security
...and then we still consider contractorisation when the contractors let us down time and again?
It all depends if you want to provide a 'point defence' airborne FJ capability in your City, Minister?
Typhoon fighter planes stationed at RAF Northolt in Olympics military build-up | Daily Mail Online
...or are you going to rely on bases further away?
It all depends if you want rapid reaction "boots on the ground" for terrorism, Minister?
400 soldiers patrol Heathrow amid terror fears | Daily Mail Online
...or are you going to rely on capabilities that could arrive after the horse has bolted?
Quite frankly, this comment shows the naivety of the Minister's advisors. Can he really have forgotten Op OLYMPICS, Op FODIENT, Op PITCHPOLE,, and others so quickly - all used MoD bases inside the M25? Was it Comrade Milliband or Balls that assisted him in order to cause the Tories embarassment? There are inaccuracies and errors throughout on the day that has been banded as '100 days to go' to the election. This is shown by this comment that was also blatted out:
We’ve cut the red tape that can bog down any large organisation.
250,000 computer users used to have to print out and re-sign a form every year to use the IT system.
No longer.
250,000 computer users used to have to print out and re-sign a form every year to use the IT system.
No longer.
So in light of this speech and its inaccuracies, this sentence feeds me with dread:
Before every Board meeting now I have a comprehensive report on my desk…with an exhaustive overview of what’s going on including the readiness of each of our ships, aircraft and units.
We’ve seen Islamist terrorists striking in Canada, Australia, Pakistan, Brussels and Paris.
But, Defence is better placed to respond to the threats we face now because over the past four and half years we have delivered one of the biggest defence transformation programmes undertaken in the Western World.
preserved our front line clout
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Bradford
Age: 54
Posts: 161
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Your middle quote is probably the funniest thing I have read for a while.
I wish it was funny but it really isn't
Contradiction there but you know what I mean
Best
Jon
I wish it was funny but it really isn't
Contradiction there but you know what I mean
Best
Jon
Wasn't there some IT Security Instructions that "required" an annual signature? Used to make an appearance just before the pre-AFI visit if I recall. 
Given we are shortly to enter purdah I suspect this speech is no more than a 'laying down the challenge' to the two Ed's to have to come up with a different way of trying to save money in the next government.....
Only 100 days to go.
Given we are shortly to enter purdah I suspect this speech is no more than a 'laying down the challenge' to the two Ed's to have to come up with a different way of trying to save money in the next government.....
Only 100 days to go.
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Manchester, UK
Posts: 1,958
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Leon, how does the ability to do all those things hinge on the MoD clinging on to particular bits of very expensive London real estate? Whitehall war office and former Brompton Rd tube stn for instance. Their sale raised tens of millions of £'s which can surely be put to better use?
Thread Starter
Shotone
Those examples have already been sold. I think you'll find useful things like Northolt, Wellington Barracks, Regents Park Barracks and a myriad of Reserves' Centres are on his list of 57. All quite useful in their own way and irrereplacable - once they're gone they're gone and no going back.
As for the £380M that he's raised from the sale of Brompton Rd and the Old War Offices amongst some others? This is a piffling amount when you compare it to the recent 'new build' infra like at Worthy Down and RAF Lyneham plus future follies like moving Cosford to Lyneham and other such nonsense - anyway it's the tens of billions on uber expensive equipment from our defense contractors that is where the money is going (all to buy the politicians more votes for jobs).
LJ
Those examples have already been sold. I think you'll find useful things like Northolt, Wellington Barracks, Regents Park Barracks and a myriad of Reserves' Centres are on his list of 57. All quite useful in their own way and irrereplacable - once they're gone they're gone and no going back.
As for the £380M that he's raised from the sale of Brompton Rd and the Old War Offices amongst some others? This is a piffling amount when you compare it to the recent 'new build' infra like at Worthy Down and RAF Lyneham plus future follies like moving Cosford to Lyneham and other such nonsense - anyway it's the tens of billions on uber expensive equipment from our defense contractors that is where the money is going (all to buy the politicians more votes for jobs).
LJ
Just because you never signed a form to use DII doesn't mean that you weren't meant to! Sadly, my secondary duty for the last year was Unit IT SyO (or something like that). It was basically a form stating you won't use the system for anything other than official work etc.
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: 45 yards from a tropical beach
Posts: 1,103
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
How did you figure that out? We have no aircraft carriers or aircraft to use on them. We have a shrinking fast jet force, no martime patrol capability and pathetic set of ships we call the Royal Navy.
"Leaner Force Packs Bigger Punch"
I cancelled my subscription that day.
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: London
Age: 50
Posts: 87
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
How terrible and inefficient we are with our "inside the M25" estate Mr Defence Secretary! A sound bite speech as has been stated.
So, 57 sites seems high. It obviously includes all the Reserve centres etc. I wonder if it includes cadet centres and married patches? Not sure of the status of married patches given the MOD does not own the actually property.
We forget much had been sold of late. Project MoDeL shut Bentley Priory, Uxbridge, Mill Hill, Eastcote and West Ruislip and either cut or relocated them to Notholt. Made a pile of cash there.
2013 saw the announcement to close circa 40 reserve centres, quite a few in London. More cash.
Chelsea barracks (old news), OWOB and Brompton road will bring in large sums.
St Johns Wood: lease not renewed unit moved to woolwich. Large savings.
The policy is to sell, sell, sell, especially in London. It is merely the pace of reduction/decline that is the issue in that it is not happening quickly enough for many. Including the Secretary of State it seems. Mind you we do have all those PFI bills to pay....
So, 57 sites seems high. It obviously includes all the Reserve centres etc. I wonder if it includes cadet centres and married patches? Not sure of the status of married patches given the MOD does not own the actually property.
We forget much had been sold of late. Project MoDeL shut Bentley Priory, Uxbridge, Mill Hill, Eastcote and West Ruislip and either cut or relocated them to Notholt. Made a pile of cash there.
2013 saw the announcement to close circa 40 reserve centres, quite a few in London. More cash.
Chelsea barracks (old news), OWOB and Brompton road will bring in large sums.
St Johns Wood: lease not renewed unit moved to woolwich. Large savings.
The policy is to sell, sell, sell, especially in London. It is merely the pace of reduction/decline that is the issue in that it is not happening quickly enough for many. Including the Secretary of State it seems. Mind you we do have all those PFI bills to pay....
Quote:
We’ve seen Islamist terrorists striking in Canada, Australia, Pakistan, Brussels and Paris.
Are Brussels and Paris countries or Canada, Australia and Pakistan a city?
Quote:
But, Defence is better placed to respond to the threats we face now because over the past four and half years we have delivered one of the biggest defence transformation programmes undertaken in the Western World.
How did you figure that out? We have no aircraft carriers or aircraft to use on them. We have a shrinking fast jet force, no martime patrol capability and pathetic set of ships we call the Royal Navy.
Quote:
preserved our front line clout
What tosh!
We’ve seen Islamist terrorists striking in Canada, Australia, Pakistan, Brussels and Paris.
Are Brussels and Paris countries or Canada, Australia and Pakistan a city?
Quote:
But, Defence is better placed to respond to the threats we face now because over the past four and half years we have delivered one of the biggest defence transformation programmes undertaken in the Western World.
How did you figure that out? We have no aircraft carriers or aircraft to use on them. We have a shrinking fast jet force, no martime patrol capability and pathetic set of ships we call the Royal Navy.
Quote:
preserved our front line clout
What tosh!
Another way of thinking about it might be that he's getting his pleading in early before the next CSR.
You can probably guarantee that one Treasury line will be : "Mr Fallon - why should you avoid cuts when you're sitting on a pile of underused property assets with realisable value?"
As Leon quite rightly points out, the amount realised since SDSR is £380m, which works out as one or two new Typhoons per annum. More to the point, the big value items have already gone, leaving sites potentially requiring big remediation - unlikely to realise huge net amounts.
You can probably guarantee that one Treasury line will be : "Mr Fallon - why should you avoid cuts when you're sitting on a pile of underused property assets with realisable value?"
As Leon quite rightly points out, the amount realised since SDSR is £380m, which works out as one or two new Typhoons per annum. More to the point, the big value items have already gone, leaving sites potentially requiring big remediation - unlikely to realise huge net amounts.
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Manchester, UK
Posts: 1,958
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Leon, if your point is that the sums raised are "piffling" that's not the same as saying the policy is wrong. In fact, most sums are piffling relative to the £38 billion of unfunded spending commitments that Mr Fallon and his predecessors have had to find the cash for.
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Longton, Lancs, UK
Age: 80
Posts: 1,527
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Fallon and his speech writers are very adept in playing to the layman's gallery. This latest obfuscatory oration is as lamentable as his first effort at the last Conservative conference.
And this double entendre tells much about the Defence Secretary's fitness for purpose. I imagine that Sir Winston would have had a very articulate response!
And this double entendre tells much about the Defence Secretary's fitness for purpose. I imagine that Sir Winston would have had a very articulate response!
But, Defence is better placed to respond to the threats we face now because over the past four and half years we have delivered one of the biggest defence transformation programmes undertaken in the Western World.
Last edited by jindabyne; 29th Jan 2015 at 19:19.
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Horsham, England, UK. ---o--O--o---
Posts: 1,185
Received 4 Likes
on
2 Posts
But, Defence is better placed to respond to the threats we face now because over the past four and half years we have
Cut our Tornado GR4 Fleet to two Squadrons, most of which are not War Goers
Cut our Harrier Aircraft and practically gave them away to the USA.
Cut our Jaguar Aircraft fleet.
Cut our already paid for Nimrod Fleet.
Cut the number of Naval Ships
Bought the wrong kind of Aircraft Carriers - No Cat & Trap
Ordered the wrong type of F-35 which may appear 5 years after the 1st carrier might be ready.
Sorry, seriously not impressed old boy!
Before every Board meeting now I have a comprehensive report on my desk…with an exhaustive overview of what’s going on including the readiness of each of our ships, aircraft and units.
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Manchester, UK
Posts: 1,958
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think you'll find, out of trim, that most of those decisions weren't taken by the present administration and none on Mr Fallons watch. Jaguar would have been long gone by now whichever party was in power, although it was chopped about eleven months early by Gordon Brown for budgetary reasons. Nimrod; yes an insane amount of money had been sunk when the plug was belatedly pulled. That doesn't mean it would have been free from that point on. Tornado, as we move towards OSD, a decreasing number of "war-goers" remain. That's why we have an OSD. Carriers; no doubt a vote-winner for Scottish Labour MP's where they're built. But cancelling one, as Fallon's predecessor wanted, would have cost more than building it. Cats/which F35, you might be right. It's been debated here ad-nauseum with about a 50/50 split. You can hardly blame the pollies if the military can't mak their minds up!
Thirdly, how do we get more out of our Whole Force
