Greek F-16 down...
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Hangarshuffle
Was on BBC World TV out here a few minutes ago-pictures showed established fire seemed to be burning without any attempts at control applied.
Was on BBC World TV out here a few minutes ago-pictures showed established fire seemed to be burning without any attempts at control applied.
The primary role of firefighters is to save and protect lives. So the strategy, given what the photos reveal and what has been reported, would be to protect and rescue those injured. So if there was a damaged building, as seems likely, with mass casualties, they would prioritise that scene rather than attend to the scene of a burning plane.
There are two distinct smoke plumes, perhaps 200 meters apart(?), indicating some degree of horizontal motion in the crash sequence.
Mickjoebill
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F16 Crash
Tragic. Early to speculate, but lack of ejection gives a clue: either sudden/catastrophic airframe failure or handling error.
Let's hope it wasn't a beat up that went wrong.
Let's hope it wasn't a beat up that went wrong.
With Tsipras now in charge they probably won't have any F-16s left before too long anyway. After all, somethings going to have to pay for the end to austerity!
That said my heart felt condolences to all those who have lost someone today.
FB
That said my heart felt condolences to all those who have lost someone today.
FB
"The INTRODUCER"
Spanish MoD: deceased are two Greek aircrew, eight French personnel. Reported in France by Le Monde defence correspondent to be one pilot, one "navigateur", and six technicians. El Mundo in Spain reports 19 injured , including 11 Italians, of which uncertain number serious.
And for completeness, five aircraft including French Mirages and Alfajets damaged or destroyed.
And for completeness, five aircraft including French Mirages and Alfajets damaged or destroyed.
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A "navigateur" (full: Navigateur Officier Système d'Arme / NOSA) is the french word for WSO.
All M2000D fly with a WSO; Rafale Bs do when flown by a crew of 2. Alphajet do occasionnaly.
Tragic event for the French Air Force, 8 of the 10 dead and 6 of the 21 wounded are French, including 3 serious ones.
French victims are crews and engineers.
The other 2 confirmed victims are the Greeks crew of the F-16D.
It crashed on the "french" parking and set fire to 4 aircraft (at least), not that this is much important for now.
All M2000D fly with a WSO; Rafale Bs do when flown by a crew of 2. Alphajet do occasionnaly.
Tragic event for the French Air Force, 8 of the 10 dead and 6 of the 21 wounded are French, including 3 serious ones.
French victims are crews and engineers.
The other 2 confirmed victims are the Greeks crew of the F-16D.
It crashed on the "french" parking and set fire to 4 aircraft (at least), not that this is much important for now.
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BBC News - Greek fighter jet crashes in Spain killing 10 people
Greek fighter-jet crash in Spain leaves at least 10 dead | World news | The Guardian
The F-16 jet "lost power", crashing at Los Llanos air base in Albacete, Spain's defence ministry said.
One of the two Greek pilots had performed a wrong manoeuvre, local media said.
One of the two Greek pilots had performed a wrong manoeuvre, local media said.
The two-seater jet was taking off when it crashed into an area of the base where other planes involved in the Nato exercise were parked.
One Italian AMX is fire-damaged.
update from scramble.nl forum: "2 Alphajets, 2 M2000D and 2 Rafales damaged or destroyed"
update from scramble.nl forum: "2 Alphajets, 2 M2000D and 2 Rafales damaged or destroyed"
Last edited by tupungato; 27th Jan 2015 at 09:51. Reason: update
According to French national media (so usual warnings about accuracy, etc) this lunchtime the French death toll is now up to 9, the majority from base aerienne 133, Nancy-Ochey.
Link below now sadly incorrect in part but gives some background:
LOR'Actu.fr - Crash en Espagne: 7 des 8 victimes appartenaient à la base de Nancy
I did TLP 30'ish years ago and like Schnowzer never thought something of this scale would happen.
Link below now sadly incorrect in part but gives some background:
LOR'Actu.fr - Crash en Espagne: 7 des 8 victimes appartenaient à la base de Nancy
I did TLP 30'ish years ago and like Schnowzer never thought something of this scale would happen.
Last edited by wiggy; 27th Jan 2015 at 15:08.
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
11 Dead And 20 Injured After Greek F16 Crashes On Take-Off At NATO Air Base In Albacete, Central Spain
NEWS: A Greek F16 fighter aircraft crashed at the Los Llanos air base in Albacete, central Spain, at lunchtime (3:16 p.m.) on Monday, destroying AMX, Alfa Jet and Mirage fighters on the ground.
11 people have died and 20 have been injured after a Greek two-seater F16 fighter jet crashed after losing power on take-off inside the Los Llanos air base in Albacete, central Spain, a Defence Ministry spokesman confirmed by telephone to The Spain Report. “The plane crashed right where there were other planes parked on the apron”, said the MoD spokesman.
Speaking during a TV interview with Telecinco on Monday night, Spanish Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy said eight of the dead were French and two Greek.
The Spanish Ministry of Defence (MoD) confirmed to The Spain Report on Tuesday morning that one of the most seriously injured burns patients—a French airman—had died overnight after being transferred to a specialist burns unit in a Hospital in Madrid. According to a statement released by the MoD on Monday night, the two Greek crew members, both captains, attempted to eject, “the canopy came off”, but “ejection was not observed”. They both died in the crash.
Eight French airmen—three captains, one lieutenant and four non-commissioned officers—were also killed after the F16 hit the ground and exploded. 21 people—10 Frenchmen and 11 Italians—were injured. Five were transferred to the serious burns unit at the La Paz Hospital in the Spanish capital Madrid, one of whom died overnight. A spokeswoman for the La Paz Hospital told The Spain Report by telephone on Tuesday morning that the four surviving patients were still in a “serious but stable” condition.
Two other Frenchmen are also “serious but stable” in a hospital in Albacete, said a statement released by the Spanish MoD, and five Italians are still under observation at a hospital in the town of Hellín (Castilla La Mancha). The other nine people injured have now been released.
The French Defence Minister, Jean Yves Le Drian, will arrive in Madrid on Tuesday.
In a statement released at 11:15 p.m. on Monday night, the MoD said the accident had affected two Italian AMX fighters, two French Alfa Jets and one French Mirage 2000. The fire caused by the crash and burning jet fuel was extinguished “one hour after the accident”.
The investigating judge has declared the crash investigation secret.
The Spanish Defence Minister, Pedro Morenés, and the Chief of the Air Staff, General Francisco Javier García Arnáiz, travelled to the base.
The Los Llanos base is used to stage NATO’s Tactical Leadership Programme, in which the Greek aircraft was taking part. NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg issued a statement on the crash: “I am deeply saddened by the crash of a Greek fighter jet at the Los Llanos base in Spain, which has caused many casualties. This is a tragedy which affects the whole NATO family. I express my heartfelt condolences to the loved ones and the nations of those who lost their lives, and I wish a speedy recovery to the injured. The plane was taking part in an exercise in the framework of NATO’s Tactical Leadership Programme, which aims to improve multinational cooperation in air operations.”
A spokeswoman for the Tactical Leadership Programme was unable to comment due to the unfolding situation.
NEWS: A Greek F16 fighter aircraft crashed at the Los Llanos air base in Albacete, central Spain, at lunchtime (3:16 p.m.) on Monday, destroying AMX, Alfa Jet and Mirage fighters on the ground.
11 people have died and 20 have been injured after a Greek two-seater F16 fighter jet crashed after losing power on take-off inside the Los Llanos air base in Albacete, central Spain, a Defence Ministry spokesman confirmed by telephone to The Spain Report. “The plane crashed right where there were other planes parked on the apron”, said the MoD spokesman.
Speaking during a TV interview with Telecinco on Monday night, Spanish Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy said eight of the dead were French and two Greek.
The Spanish Ministry of Defence (MoD) confirmed to The Spain Report on Tuesday morning that one of the most seriously injured burns patients—a French airman—had died overnight after being transferred to a specialist burns unit in a Hospital in Madrid. According to a statement released by the MoD on Monday night, the two Greek crew members, both captains, attempted to eject, “the canopy came off”, but “ejection was not observed”. They both died in the crash.
Eight French airmen—three captains, one lieutenant and four non-commissioned officers—were also killed after the F16 hit the ground and exploded. 21 people—10 Frenchmen and 11 Italians—were injured. Five were transferred to the serious burns unit at the La Paz Hospital in the Spanish capital Madrid, one of whom died overnight. A spokeswoman for the La Paz Hospital told The Spain Report by telephone on Tuesday morning that the four surviving patients were still in a “serious but stable” condition.
Two other Frenchmen are also “serious but stable” in a hospital in Albacete, said a statement released by the Spanish MoD, and five Italians are still under observation at a hospital in the town of Hellín (Castilla La Mancha). The other nine people injured have now been released.
The French Defence Minister, Jean Yves Le Drian, will arrive in Madrid on Tuesday.
In a statement released at 11:15 p.m. on Monday night, the MoD said the accident had affected two Italian AMX fighters, two French Alfa Jets and one French Mirage 2000. The fire caused by the crash and burning jet fuel was extinguished “one hour after the accident”.
The investigating judge has declared the crash investigation secret.
The Spanish Defence Minister, Pedro Morenés, and the Chief of the Air Staff, General Francisco Javier García Arnáiz, travelled to the base.
The Los Llanos base is used to stage NATO’s Tactical Leadership Programme, in which the Greek aircraft was taking part. NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg issued a statement on the crash: “I am deeply saddened by the crash of a Greek fighter jet at the Los Llanos base in Spain, which has caused many casualties. This is a tragedy which affects the whole NATO family. I express my heartfelt condolences to the loved ones and the nations of those who lost their lives, and I wish a speedy recovery to the injured. The plane was taking part in an exercise in the framework of NATO’s Tactical Leadership Programme, which aims to improve multinational cooperation in air operations.”
A spokeswoman for the Tactical Leadership Programme was unable to comment due to the unfolding situation.
One of the two Greek pilots had performed a wrong manoeuvre, local media said.
I am very pleased to see that (so far at least) the discussion on this thread is in marked contrast to the sort of rubbish we see on R & N, with all and sundry pitching in with their own theories, no matter how unlikely, and an unseemly slanging match developing before the wreckage is cool. Let's hope it stays that way.
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Yes. Weighing my words carefully. I'm guessing here, its looking like a terrible accident. Last night, I was actually watching a bit of foreign t.v. news and I thought it was some sort of horrible terrorist attack. My thoughts were distant about this today but seeing the news again tonight on france24.com it looks awful.
Do ppruners think (the UK military) practise and train enough to deal with this sort of horrendous event? Pre-air day I always thought we gave it a serious go, but also felt at times some of the key people on the base just went through the motions, and sort of kicked the training for it into the grass a little.
At Yeovilton, it was about year 2000, I recall a FA2 being delivered, and subsequently crashing, with the pilot ejecting not quite safely as it attempted to land on 27. The aircraft rolled onwards for quite a way, left the runway, decapitated an SF90 and then went past the front of the old ATC tower and hit a small concrete stub wall and came to rest. If it hadn't hit the stub wall knocking the nosewheel I dread to think what could have happened as it was pointing (as I recall) firmly at the green Lynx and green Sea-king line of...707 or 848 NAS (can't remember).
Always closer to disaster in the FAA than we sometimes wanted to acknowledge.
Does anyone else remember that? I always thought the gods were relatively kind that day..seeing the news reminded me about it again.
Do ppruners think (the UK military) practise and train enough to deal with this sort of horrendous event? Pre-air day I always thought we gave it a serious go, but also felt at times some of the key people on the base just went through the motions, and sort of kicked the training for it into the grass a little.
At Yeovilton, it was about year 2000, I recall a FA2 being delivered, and subsequently crashing, with the pilot ejecting not quite safely as it attempted to land on 27. The aircraft rolled onwards for quite a way, left the runway, decapitated an SF90 and then went past the front of the old ATC tower and hit a small concrete stub wall and came to rest. If it hadn't hit the stub wall knocking the nosewheel I dread to think what could have happened as it was pointing (as I recall) firmly at the green Lynx and green Sea-king line of...707 or 848 NAS (can't remember).
Always closer to disaster in the FAA than we sometimes wanted to acknowledge.
Does anyone else remember that? I always thought the gods were relatively kind that day..seeing the news reminded me about it again.
For those who speak French, a particularly moving tribute on an excellent French military blog. What. A dreadful, dreadful loss of life. As a TLP graduate myself, this is simply unimaginable.
Albacete : les neufs aviateurs tués dans l'accident | L'Opinion
Albacete : les neufs aviateurs tués dans l'accident | L'Opinion
I was an SFSO in 1991/2, and it was certainly taken seriously by everyone then. I witnessed a crash at Valley in 1986 where the wreckage also ended up tumbling across the airfield and ending up in front of the tower. Two aircraft had just taxied, and a friend next to them amazed himself with his unstrap and egress speed in response to a wildly gesticulating liney. The crash alarm only went off for about half a second because the local controller, having dispatched his finger towards the crash button, then realised the path of the flaming cartwheel was straight at him and started running. His finger thus only grazed the button.
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Whilst probably not the most robust of sources, it does give a little more information (if correct) about the flightpath of the F-16 immediately before the crash...
Controls failure caused F-16 crash | In English | EL PAÍS
-RP
Controls failure caused F-16 crash | In English | EL PAÍS
-RP
If you look at an accident at RAF Cranwell in Sep 08 when OC RAFAT forgot to pop his gear down then you could have had a similar result - especially at shift change over!
So we have been lucky in the past and unfortunately TLP's luck ran out that day.
RIP chaps
LJ
So we have been lucky in the past and unfortunately TLP's luck ran out that day.
RIP chaps
LJ
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Final Report
Final report has been posted on the French Military BEA (available in English)
Les rapports des bureaux enquêtes accidents défense
Key finding:
SYNOPSIS
The Hellenic Air Force (HAF) F-16D S/N 93-1084 (here after referred to as the mishap aircraft) of the 341 squadron (SQ), was the number 2 of a 2 aircraft (A/C) formation, taking off for a Tactical Leadership Programme (TLP) Flying Course 2015-1 mission from Albacete Air Force Base (Albacete AFB), Albacete, Spain on 26 January 2015. The mishap A/C crashed at 15:16 local time (14:16 UTC), approximately 7.8 sec after takeoff on runway 27 (RWY 27). The aft seat pilot initiated ejection out of the seat safe ejection envelope. The mishap resulted in the fatal injury of both mishap pilots and the total destruction of the mishap A/C.
The main causes of the mishap were:
- Mishap A/C was not properly trimmed for takeoff as before TAXI, the yaw trim was inadvertent set to maximum right yaw trimming (12o right), drastically affecting the aerodynamics of the aircraft during takeoff.
-Pilot in command conducted the “Before Takeoff” checklist actions in the parking area (ramp E2) approximately 20 min before takeoff.
After Take-off, pilot stick commands and the resultant control surface outputs were insufficient to maintain the A/C in controlled flight.
Impact and the post impact fire led to the destruction or damage of eight (8) additional A/C and caused fatal injuries to nine (9) French Air Force personnel, numerous injuries and significant damages to ground equipment and to Albacete AFB and TLP infrastructure in the vicinity of Ramp E2 and in front of the TLP hangar.
Les rapports des bureaux enquêtes accidents défense
Key finding:
SYNOPSIS
The Hellenic Air Force (HAF) F-16D S/N 93-1084 (here after referred to as the mishap aircraft) of the 341 squadron (SQ), was the number 2 of a 2 aircraft (A/C) formation, taking off for a Tactical Leadership Programme (TLP) Flying Course 2015-1 mission from Albacete Air Force Base (Albacete AFB), Albacete, Spain on 26 January 2015. The mishap A/C crashed at 15:16 local time (14:16 UTC), approximately 7.8 sec after takeoff on runway 27 (RWY 27). The aft seat pilot initiated ejection out of the seat safe ejection envelope. The mishap resulted in the fatal injury of both mishap pilots and the total destruction of the mishap A/C.
The main causes of the mishap were:
- Mishap A/C was not properly trimmed for takeoff as before TAXI, the yaw trim was inadvertent set to maximum right yaw trimming (12o right), drastically affecting the aerodynamics of the aircraft during takeoff.
-Pilot in command conducted the “Before Takeoff” checklist actions in the parking area (ramp E2) approximately 20 min before takeoff.
After Take-off, pilot stick commands and the resultant control surface outputs were insufficient to maintain the A/C in controlled flight.
Impact and the post impact fire led to the destruction or damage of eight (8) additional A/C and caused fatal injuries to nine (9) French Air Force personnel, numerous injuries and significant damages to ground equipment and to Albacete AFB and TLP infrastructure in the vicinity of Ramp E2 and in front of the TLP hangar.
Last edited by valvanuz; 27th Jul 2015 at 14:17. Reason: clarity