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Old 17th Jan 2015, 23:03
  #21 (permalink)  
 
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Jeez that's close.
Felt nervous watching it.
And if something went wrong, an ejection seat wouldn't be much use either; you'd end up collecting the other jet as you went out.
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Old 18th Jan 2015, 07:51
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The video needed to be 14 minutes long just to fit the takeoff roll in.
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Old 18th Jan 2015, 08:04
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That's very very close. Did that add anything to the audience experience? Very low final approach too, for some reason.
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Old 18th Jan 2015, 09:43
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Originally Posted by ShotOne
That's very very close. Did that add anything to the audience experience?
Absolutely. Having watched the display several times at airshows, the distance from the crowd eliminates much of the movement visually, of the jets relative to each other when in very close formation, almost looked like they were attached to each other!

-RP
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Old 18th Jan 2015, 19:42
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No argument that it's an impressive display... although strikingly (chillingly, rather) similar to the fateful "Voltige Victor" display.
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Old 18th Jan 2015, 21:42
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Just watched this very impressive. Just after take-off they adopt their 'close'! formation position whilst banking to port, which takes them over built-up areas and later on they perform manoeuvres in close formation again over such areas. Is not SOP to keep within the confines of the airbase for such phases?

Did not have much involvement with Jags (the occasional survey of bird-struck ones to categorise the damage, oh and trudging through the woods near Wesel plotting the location of bits&pieces of a certain machine). Anyway, the leading edge slats on the T-bird in the video appeared to be extended for the duration - would that be normal only for high-G manoeuvres or are they fixed?
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Old 18th Jan 2015, 22:11
  #27 (permalink)  
 
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I went from the Adour to the Pegasus which accelerated so fast, it was difficult to capture an accurate figure on the stopwatch.
I was on GR3's as a techy and seem to remember there was a slam check before take off where it had to go from idle to 95% in two seconds. I'm sure bona mates on here will put me straight but I don't think I'm far off.
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Old 18th Jan 2015, 22:13
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Could any fast jet drivers give an insight into the effects of met phenomena like gusts when you are so close?
Are they any closer than the Reds, or any other dispaly team?
It appears so from the video - but I'm no expert.
Wing loading on many fighters is quite low, and they appear to be flying quite slowly.
I would have thought you could have been at significant risk of being blown into the other ship, before you could react?
Are there weather minima above which a display like this would not be flown?
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Old 18th Jan 2015, 22:15
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I'm keen to read how a gust would affect one more than the other.

If wind from, say, "under" the belly of the lower airframe pushed it "up" in the turn, would the air spilled over the top of the wings not push the other airframe "up" and away as well?
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Old 18th Jan 2015, 22:16
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Wing loading on many fighters is quite low,
Depends on the aircraft. Compare the loading on an F15 and F104.
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Old 18th Jan 2015, 22:18
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Yeah, but on a Jaguar?
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Old 18th Jan 2015, 22:21
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Don't know what the loading was on a Jag. I would say remembering the wing planform that it wan't that high especially at display weights but I didn't fly them so don't know what the gust respone was.
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Old 18th Jan 2015, 22:51
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Thing - hence use of the word `many' not `all'
The F-104 is a rather extreme wing loading example...
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Old 18th Jan 2015, 22:59
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I know that's why I used it...
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Old 19th Jan 2015, 16:00
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That's very impressive flying!

The jet sure had its limitations but boy did we have some fun!

Brought me out in a cold sweat reminding me how crap I was at those bl00dy flat turns at Deci!!!
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Old 19th Jan 2015, 16:21
  #36 (permalink)  
 
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The slats seem to be out for the bulk of the video. Are they extended/retracted aerodynamically or otherwise?
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Old 19th Jan 2015, 16:25
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Ahhh! "Flat turns at Deci"! Weren't they fun.................
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Old 19th Jan 2015, 18:22
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I have little knowledge of the comparative advantages of one type over the other but in my relatively shore quarter of a century in the RAF I always thought that the Jaguar, especially the T-bird, was the sexiest looking fighter.

Standing-back for incoming.
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Old 19th Jan 2015, 18:23
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I was on GR3's as a techy and seem to remember there was a slam check before take off where it had to go from idle to 95% in two seconds. I'm sure bona mates on here will put me straight but I don't think I'm far off.
I was also the GR3 and you are not wrong about the accel times. It wasn't just the speed of the thing, its was the severe vibration (with the nozzles aft) which meant that it was hard to read the RPM gauge, let alone nail it on the stopwatch.

Remember the "max bleed wet" slam? Water on, full rudder with left leg, right leg wrapped round the stick pulling it full left and aft, left hand slamming the throttle and right hand on the stopwatch. It was rather challenging but fun
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Old 19th Jan 2015, 18:32
  #40 (permalink)  
 
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Slats. "Combat" or 1/4 Slat was automatic, up to around 500 Knts if angles of attack exceeded 5 degrees (signalled by the incidence probe). slightly improved the limits of incidence of the Jaguar that wasn't great as most know. The PTR was originally developed for the Jaguar after the first 2 French "A" prototypes suffered undershoot incidents trying to recover on single engine approaches early in the flight test program. The maximum dry thrust of the Adour 101 was not powerful enough to allow normal approaches at anything above minimum weights, while min burner was too much boost, so PTR was developed "to fill the gap". Of course PTR was almost mandatory for in flight refuelling and some other flight regimes.
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