Now where the heck did I put that MPA?
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...and by your argument, if you can call it that, maybe we should dissolve all of our Armed Forces, and just rely on our allies for everything.
Can't believe I've risen to your nonsense...
Can't believe I've risen to your nonsense...
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Beags dear chap...
Can't believe I'm going to do this, but...
Beagle - I wouldn't believe all you're told.
Granted, the baseline aircraft was an utter pig; very poor long stab, poor harmonisation between roll and pitch forces, poor stalling characteristics and ridiculously large roll rates at high Mach numbers and more. However all these had been addressed for the production aircraft.
The aircraft, once the SAS and stick pusher, single aileron cable, gurney flaps, 20/10 ailerons were installed was actually a pleasure to fly. Considerably easier and less fatiguing than the venerable MR2.
Beagle - I wouldn't believe all you're told.
Granted, the baseline aircraft was an utter pig; very poor long stab, poor harmonisation between roll and pitch forces, poor stalling characteristics and ridiculously large roll rates at high Mach numbers and more. However all these had been addressed for the production aircraft.
The aircraft, once the SAS and stick pusher, single aileron cable, gurney flaps, 20/10 ailerons were installed was actually a pleasure to fly. Considerably easier and less fatiguing than the venerable MR2.
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Where were the Merlins then?
What Flypro said. Why weren't Merlins used then? We've still got 814 and 820 haven't we, taking up an amazing amount of taxpayers money in wages and all?
Answer, Air Arm types serving.
Or is it beyond capability as well? (No platform for them anyway, with the demise of CVS and the RFA decks).
Answer, Air Arm types serving.
Or is it beyond capability as well? (No platform for them anyway, with the demise of CVS and the RFA decks).
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I was ..................
but if you follow Betty's arguments to a logical conclusion we should be completely equipped for every eventuality as we might have to fight totally without support
I don't think we've ever managed that - not even in 1945
but if you follow Betty's arguments to a logical conclusion we should be completely equipped for every eventuality as we might have to fight totally without support
I don't think we've ever managed that - not even in 1945
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Just a little reminder of why we should care about a "transitting' sub from a nation whos economy is imploding under western Sanctions. And why protecting SLOCS are crucial to all of us.
Maritime Choke Points - Think Defence
Maritime Choke Points - Think Defence
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Fair one then.
Amazing how fast the forces sank to nothing in some departments and sectors, I never can never get over it sometimes. It seems like last week we had 3 CVS, a lot of Sea Kings, a lot of RFA platform...all quickly gone.
Press haven't really scorched any ministers over this, that I've heard, ignorance being bliss. I don't think apart from some old pro's on here, anybody really cares.
Realistically, and although it is (fingers crossed) unlikely, if we were ever confronted by an even moderate sized aggressive submarine menace, Britain is truly doomed to starve (again). And on that note, I'm cracking the beer and port open.
Press haven't really scorched any ministers over this, that I've heard, ignorance being bliss. I don't think apart from some old pro's on here, anybody really cares.
Realistically, and although it is (fingers crossed) unlikely, if we were ever confronted by an even moderate sized aggressive submarine menace, Britain is truly doomed to starve (again). And on that note, I'm cracking the beer and port open.
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Debt.
Just been looking at the papers, and we are still nearly £1,500,000,000,000 in debt to the world. And with a budget deficit of 5.2% of our annual GDP.
Which is why we haven't got MPA, CVS any more etc. anyway.
It will take the wisdom of Solomon to ever get out of this finacial mess, which we never now will anyway.
So don't expect any new military assets soon. And keep buying from abroad, someone might say in a foreign accent.
Which is why we haven't got MPA, CVS any more etc. anyway.
It will take the wisdom of Solomon to ever get out of this finacial mess, which we never now will anyway.
So don't expect any new military assets soon. And keep buying from abroad, someone might say in a foreign accent.
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Don't worry - Nigel farage will deport all those immigrants and we'll have LOADS of food.....................
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But, but, who will harvest the sugar beet for 50p an hour?
I spent many arduous but happy & rewarding hours of my Maritime career detecting & tracking Russian nucs all over the North Atlantic & I know how long it takes to build up the necessary expertise in this specialist task. Even if, after the next election, we somehow get a government which really believes in the defence of the nation, it will take a long time before we can again really feel on top of the job.
Rant over.
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Fincastle
I am sure Willard agrees with what you say wholeheartedly but unfortunately being "on top of the job" as we remember it is not likely to happen in my lifetime or yours the way things stand.
Everybody has great respect for the Kipper Fleet and what you did but I can only see things getting worse for the foreseeable.
That's not to say I am happy about it but that's where we are.
Best Regards
Jon
I am sure Willard agrees with what you say wholeheartedly but unfortunately being "on top of the job" as we remember it is not likely to happen in my lifetime or yours the way things stand.
Everybody has great respect for the Kipper Fleet and what you did but I can only see things getting worse for the foreseeable.
That's not to say I am happy about it but that's where we are.
Best Regards
Jon
Last edited by jonw66; 10th Dec 2014 at 23:30.
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Oh Harry. I'm convinced you're just on here to pi$$ people off. And, frankly, you're not even that good at that.
I REALLY don't think you need post any more. You haven't a clue about maritime, MPA or any future MMA.
Why not give it a rest fella, and go trawl on some other thread where folks might actually try debate with your nonsense. No one on here gives a hoot mate. There are still some peeps on here passionate about the capability. Your "arguments" are pointless, ill-founded and immature.
So let us have a well structured debate, devoid of crass comments and pontificating about what you know little.
I'm afraid we're now past the point of debating whether a maritime capability is essential or not. The recent news on this thread vindicates that. SDSR 15 looms ever closer. And we need the capability. If you have an opinion otherwise, that's now largely irrelevant. And if you wish to keep posting nonsensical posts.....
Don't.
I REALLY don't think you need post any more. You haven't a clue about maritime, MPA or any future MMA.
Why not give it a rest fella, and go trawl on some other thread where folks might actually try debate with your nonsense. No one on here gives a hoot mate. There are still some peeps on here passionate about the capability. Your "arguments" are pointless, ill-founded and immature.
So let us have a well structured debate, devoid of crass comments and pontificating about what you know little.
I'm afraid we're now past the point of debating whether a maritime capability is essential or not. The recent news on this thread vindicates that. SDSR 15 looms ever closer. And we need the capability. If you have an opinion otherwise, that's now largely irrelevant. And if you wish to keep posting nonsensical posts.....
Don't.
Last edited by betty swallox; 11th Dec 2014 at 02:44.
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The French Breguet Atlantique are excellent MPA aircraft, made especially for submarine hunting. In fact they have been, for long, the only dedicated airfram built and designed from scratch for that purpose.
They have been constantly updated, can launch Exocet missiles, and all the antisubmarine stuff. To search for smugglers or rescue people out in the blue, they are anyway a little bit overpriced - that's why a significant number of Falcon 50 (and some Falcon 20) have been acquired and tailored for the job (appropriate radar, drop hatch, extra windows, even small pods to launch rockets...) So France has three types of MPA aircraft....
and the French navy is always available to help our so-good friends from over the Channel (same for aircraft-carriers ...) unless there is better to do in Africa or the Middle-East, where those aircraft are also used over the desert. So if they are too busy guys, sorry - try to find those subs off Scotland using combat divers, or charter Monarch or easyjet with sets of googles in the cockpit...
They have been constantly updated, can launch Exocet missiles, and all the antisubmarine stuff. To search for smugglers or rescue people out in the blue, they are anyway a little bit overpriced - that's why a significant number of Falcon 50 (and some Falcon 20) have been acquired and tailored for the job (appropriate radar, drop hatch, extra windows, even small pods to launch rockets...) So France has three types of MPA aircraft....
and the French navy is always available to help our so-good friends from over the Channel (same for aircraft-carriers ...) unless there is better to do in Africa or the Middle-East, where those aircraft are also used over the desert. So if they are too busy guys, sorry - try to find those subs off Scotland using combat divers, or charter Monarch or easyjet with sets of googles in the cockpit...
Last edited by Reinhardt; 11th Dec 2014 at 09:00.
Dunno, but given that their reaction time was no doubt severely increased due to an involuntary and extended bout of rolling on the floor laughing, I expect not.
YS
While I realize that what politicians say before they are elected and what they actually do after they are elected are very different things, reading
BBC News - Ed Miliband: We'll tackle deficit with 'sensible' cuts
implies that if Labour are in power/coalition post 2015 then every government department except the NHS (and you can expect Education to eventually be added) will face budget cuts year on year until the annual deficit is reduced.
All parties are falling over themselves to state how they will reduce the deficit, against this background I can't see how SDSR 2015 will be anything other than another capability, for which read cost, cutting exercise.
Funding for new assets (such as MPA/MMA) is likely only to be feasible if something else is given up. Depressing times for the military as asset after asset, base after base and capability after capability disappears.
Oh, government sector workers can also expect minimal pay rises for years to come, which the government of the day will justify on the basis that inflation is currently only 1.2%.
BBC News - Ed Miliband: We'll tackle deficit with 'sensible' cuts
implies that if Labour are in power/coalition post 2015 then every government department except the NHS (and you can expect Education to eventually be added) will face budget cuts year on year until the annual deficit is reduced.
All parties are falling over themselves to state how they will reduce the deficit, against this background I can't see how SDSR 2015 will be anything other than another capability, for which read cost, cutting exercise.
Funding for new assets (such as MPA/MMA) is likely only to be feasible if something else is given up. Depressing times for the military as asset after asset, base after base and capability after capability disappears.
Oh, government sector workers can also expect minimal pay rises for years to come, which the government of the day will justify on the basis that inflation is currently only 1.2%.
