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OP 'TIL WE DROP

Old 6th Dec 2014, 07:37
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It seems that what happened on this Op ( and Libya if memory serves) was an instant declaration of field conditions. This has the advantage ( from the bean counters' point of view) of meaning no/reduced LOA . The counter is that there must be provision of certain facilities including enhanced / 24 hour FREE catering. It seems that this side is not happening! Regardless of the view of them "4 Yorkshire Men" here , this is unlikely to have a positive effect on morale or indeed long-term retention.
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Old 6th Dec 2014, 07:50
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A bit of moaning on how bad it is in AKT. Please tell us how bad it is on Red Flag where most of you are regular visitors
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Old 6th Dec 2014, 08:54
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Please, speaking as an old fogey myself just because we put up with it back in our day, it doesn't mean that its alright now. People have moved on a loooong way.
We must start thinking about the fact that IF we are to carry out the politician's wishes and involve ourselves in silly wars in the middle east, we MUST have a first class, fully operational base at Akrotiri with all the bells and knobs.
We need to realise that while its perfectly lovely flying around in the expensive machines that the taxpayer funds, unless we have the technicians to maintain them, they won't fly.
These days, like it or not, technicians are NOT squaddies, they want proper working conditions - good fully functioning workplaces, proper clothing, really good places to eat when on duty and seriously comfortable places to live in whether married or single. If you don't understand that this is the way people think today, then get out of the way - because they do.
If the politicians don't want to fund this, then they need to stop running after the Americans every time they click their fingers.
Personally I think we in these islands need a top class Air Force and a top class Navy, because these are the services that will keep us safe and able to operate where we please. Not to denigrate the Army, I would want to see it as a special forces organisation, seriously professional (as indeed the special forces are)
Our concern here as current and former Air Force people is with the Air Force, and the whole thing from cheese sandwiches to around 16% of Tornadoes actually combat-ready is simply not acceptable - its time the Air Force top brass grew something that would make them capable of telling the PM and ministers that they must pay for top class or forget strutting the world stage.
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Old 6th Dec 2014, 08:59
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So......still no-one who has actually been on this det has pitched up to substantiate the "complaints" in this "letter".

A bit like this site, people who write things may not be who they seem. Perhaps this is stage 1 of the pre-SDSR knife-in-the-back by the Army and/or Navy PR (or RP) department! And, yes, the tinfoil hat fits fine thank you!

Besides, I'd be pi55ed off if I was on II(AC) Sqn right now ....

The unit has now returned to Scotland for Christmas and the MoD said its members had been given an extra week's leave, in recognition of their recent efforts.
According to the RAF website (), and the local press, II(AC) Sqn are still based at RAF Marham. In Norfolk. England.

It's all the truckies fault. Clearly the hotels are better in Scotland than Norfolk!

Edited to add...

to around 16% of Tornadoes actually combat-ready
Do you understand the difference between FE@R requirements (i.e that which is fully funded) and total fleet size?
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Old 6th Dec 2014, 09:02
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Wrathers,

Particularly in respect to your earlier contribution, whatever the motivation and whatever message was trying to be conveyed, the whole thing may have been planted by the AVM or one of his staff of course!
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Old 6th Dec 2014, 09:03
  #86 (permalink)  
 
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So......still no-one who has actually been on this det has pitched up to substantiate the "complaints" in this "letter".
How do you know?
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Old 6th Dec 2014, 09:09
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Wrath

perhaps those on the det, apart from the anonymous source, are aware of Opsec.
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Old 6th Dec 2014, 09:24
  #88 (permalink)  
 
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And now that we know that the RN is to have its permanent new base in Bahrain, the more important that the RAF have a first class fully operational base in Akrotiri.
Presumably the politicians have made a decision about our ongoing involvement in the middle east. So now they must fund it properly.
I have to say having two genuine operational bases is far better than occasional forays into ad hoc fighting. Bases tend to give troublemakers time for second thoughts.
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Old 6th Dec 2014, 11:11
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Slightly off the original topic, but typical of the run-down of HM Armed forces, a very senior officer has recently stated that the RAF will shortly be reduced to 10 bases! When asked if that was 10 airfields he replied 'No, 10 bases which includes non airfields'. So will that just be Brize & Lossie??
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Old 6th Dec 2014, 11:33
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Brize has to be one - otherwise where would the poor VIPs land?
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Old 6th Dec 2014, 11:49
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Whatever the perception of the situation, all I can say is that surely as an MOB Akrotiri should have the required facilities of one. Crews involved with ops from Marham during Bellamy no doubt enjoyed all those facilities?

But it highlights how organisational support for front line staff/crew is withering everywhere. Fifteen years ago at a big district general hospital near where I live there was a staff canteen open Mondays to Fridays 9-5. The public restaurant was open to staff, and provided hot meals from about 6am to 2am, with the proviso that after about 11pm you phoned and let them know you were coming.

Since then the staff canteen has closed permanently, and as patient catering went from food cooked in the kitchens to frozen meals prepared externally and cooked on the wards in portable ovens so the catering facilities diminished, bit by bit. Freshly prepared food at night went, replaced by a vending service and a microwave. Then that stopped and the doors closed at 11pm, then 9pm, and then at 7pm. Now the restaurant closes at 5pm, with no hot food available to patients, visitors or staff after that time, and I believe it is planned that it will stay closed at weekends. The reasonably priced coffee shop at the hospital entrance has been replaced by a Costa franchise, and the shop is now run by WH Smiths with motorway services prices for sandwiches, while taking leftover food from the patients' food trolley has now become a sackable offence. I understand some of the local takeaways are doing very well as a result.

Meanwhile, the NHS Trust responsible still expects maximum loyalty and a 'can-do' attitude from its staff and doesn't understand why staff morale and patient satisfaction are going downhill.
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Old 6th Dec 2014, 11:59
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Brize, Waddo, High Wycombe, Northolt, Cranwell, Benson/Odiham*, Lossie, Halton, Conningsby & Valley?

And that's without Akrotiri and Mount Pleasant (does the latter count?)

One assumes - dangerous! - that the various bombing ranges are safe? Or are all wars going to be virtual as in Star Trek's 'A Taste of Armageddon'? In which case they can all go. Although given the cost of govt. computer systems it'd be more expensive than the real thing.

*can't see them both surviving.
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Old 6th Dec 2014, 12:03
  #93 (permalink)  
 
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Pretty much agree, Willard, though I would say Cosford rather than Halton.
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Old 6th Dec 2014, 12:09
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downsizer, Al R, Toadstool

You are, of course, quite correct! Could the OP be the AVM...?!

sharpend/Willard Whyte/Martin The Martian

Isn't the new all singing all dancing Harrier/Jaguar/Tornado GR replacement (eventually) going into Marham? Or at least whilst its not embarked....
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Old 6th Dec 2014, 12:11
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Cosford is going to the Army martin...
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Old 6th Dec 2014, 12:54
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AKI transit was by far the worst accom experience of my career. It made KAF RSOI and living in a tent in Oman seem luxurious. That was almost 10 years ago mind so things may have improved!

AKI has withered to minimum manning and infra over the last 20 years as many here have eluded. From comms to catering the place is a fine example of decline through lack of investment. There was even a push to close the place about 5 years back to save money in one of the torturous planning rounds. It also seems the lessons on operating from Cyprus for Libya ops have not been acted upon. Much the same issues as now but no letters to newspapers.....
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Old 6th Dec 2014, 13:05
  #97 (permalink)  
 
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Are the Red Arrows still using Akrotiri for Winter Training? If so how do they fare with regards to the apparent run-down of the Base facilities?
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Old 6th Dec 2014, 13:21
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Reds live in the mess during practice season. In between hoofing round and playing golf! Certainly not many night shifts I am aware of! (Although every time I have seen them there they generally are working their nads off)
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Old 6th Dec 2014, 13:51
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As a pongo I totally sympathise with the problems of todays RAF, lack of manpower, many deployments and last minute taskings etc. In my unit we have the same problems and people are voting now with their feet which creates more shortages.

An American Officer recently said the UK wants to be a world player but doesn't want to pay for it.

At a time when the MoD is now being run by accountants with spreadsheets and it is more important to get your weekly toilet roll return in that it is to plan for training; things will only get worse.

So why don't you sign off? I hear many of you say. I have and I suppose that makes me selfish for creating more manpower shortages!
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Old 6th Dec 2014, 13:55
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Don't they teach anything at Sealford Ploy or War College anymore?

Basic rules of War fighting.

1. Selection and Maintenance of the Aim
2. Maintenance of Morale
3. Offensive Action
4. Security
5. Surprise
6. Concentration of Force
7. Economy of Effort
8. Flexibility
9. Cooperation
10. Sustainability
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