F35 C first deck landing
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Not concerned about video format meself as I make PDFs and videos for WINDOWS - the great bleedin' silent majority. I did upload an .MP4 format originally at F-16.net and although the file showed the movie did not run as the .WMV does. So the .MP4 was tooken down again. I'll put it back and post a link here; however my main message is this: Windows ROCKS (the microphone - straight from the top of my dome). Here ya go....
http://www.f-16.net/forum/download/file.php?id=19739 (1Mb)
http://www.f-16.net/forum/download/file.php?id=19739 (1Mb)
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The HOOK without the Line and Sinker as you've never seen it before (is that a rusty hinge?) from the big pic here:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/lockhe...43298/sizes/o/
And here: https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7573/...e7c6f232_o.jpg (3.4Mb)
Forgot about this old Magoo Car Pet video: Would there not be an utility to enable Windows Wideos to run on Rotten Apples?
https://www.flickr.com/photos/lockhe...43298/sizes/o/
And here: https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7573/...e7c6f232_o.jpg (3.4Mb)
Forgot about this old Magoo Car Pet video: Would there not be an utility to enable Windows Wideos to run on Rotten Apples?
Last edited by SpazSinbad; 16th Nov 2014 at 00:36.
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A credible explanation for 'the fire': two deck lights plus swirling steam of various densities producing 'lighting effects'.
F-35C 1st Night Catapult & Arrest + Slow Motion
F-35C 1st Night Catapult & Arrest + Slow Motion
Hmm. I see what you mean, Spaz. Half the time it looks like fire, half the time it looks like your theory. As no one on the deck seems too worried about it, apart from bloke walking to it then walking away, I suspect your idea is the right one.
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Spaz,
Thanks for the slomo - I think you've nailed it. Looks very much like steam plus lights.
The clincher for me is the lack of reaction of the flight deck crew - any fire on a flight deck would have resulted in immediate action from everyone in the vicinity.
Nice work, mate
Engines
Thanks for the slomo - I think you've nailed it. Looks very much like steam plus lights.
The clincher for me is the lack of reaction of the flight deck crew - any fire on a flight deck would have resulted in immediate action from everyone in the vicinity.
Nice work, mate
Engines
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Not my idea but having made the slomo I can better see what is happening. One screenshot could show just the two lights, which I suspect are for the crew connecting the aircraft nosewheel via the hold back to the catapult shuttle. Another screenshot would show the chap on the left who goes over to pick up what is left of that holdback fitting (highlighted in the light) whilst two others on the right start to go over to do what they do. Others not concerned because there is no fire - just an illusion.
'Engines' replied as I typed.... Yes - with fast action the chaps going over - particularly the first one - had me fooled but now I think the evidence is clear.
There is a slo mo of a day catapult here: (one can see the big hunk 0'change wot is left behind)
'Engines' replied as I typed.... Yes - with fast action the chaps going over - particularly the first one - had me fooled but now I think the evidence is clear.
There is a slo mo of a day catapult here: (one can see the big hunk 0'change wot is left behind)
Last edited by SpazSinbad; 16th Nov 2014 at 18:57. Reason: 'Engines' reply & add 'holdback' + video addie
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To me the 'holdback' arrangements these days are similar so here is the X-47B sucking back (in the holdback) - watch out - no bridal snatch-er....
X-47B Catapult Hold Back Break Slow Motion
X-47B Catapult Hold Back Break Slow Motion
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At first blush this was the mooted new shape for the NEW F-35C Hook (side profile) design. Change from Hornet Family shape to what appears to me to be an A-4 style design. YMMV. OLD on left with NEW somewhere there.... One must remember that the wire/pendant is raised above the deck by inches [for USN the 'wire support can be a max. of 5.5 inches] but also can be flat when trampled. The complex dance for hook/wire engagement seems to have been solved.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...nrtc/14310.pdf (for getting arrested stuff)
http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...nrtc/14310.pdf (for getting arrested stuff)
Last edited by SpazSinbad; 17th Nov 2014 at 01:00. Reason: xtra txt + URL
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Perhaps I can help a little here.
The new hook shape was first shown very soon after the initial arresting trials revealed the problem. My feeling is that the LM team originally went for a proven and reliable hook tip shape (Hornet), and it's highly probable that this design was approved by the USN Navair team at a very early stage. The Hornet hook offered reliable traps with low probability of arresting gear pendant damage.
As I'be posted before, the original F-35C arresting gear design complied with all the standards and specifications required. The 'hook to main gear' distance was not specified.
My guess (and thats all it is) is that as soon as the problem appeared, an LM/Navair team decided to try another type of hook shape that had worked in the past, accepting the increased possibility of arresting gear damage from the sharper hook point. It appears to have worked, as the aircraft would not have been allowed anywhere near the deck unless it had passed a fairly stringent series of tests.
What this illustrates is that the USN and Navair tend to operate in a fairly empirical fashion (if it's worked before, it will work this time). Many of their standards and specifications do little more than codify previous successful design solutions. (Large chunks of Def Stan 00-970 did the same thing for many years, and continue to do so today). Given the complexities and uncertainties involved in trying to accurately model a whipping arresting wire, it's an understandable approach.
Hope this helps
Engines
The new hook shape was first shown very soon after the initial arresting trials revealed the problem. My feeling is that the LM team originally went for a proven and reliable hook tip shape (Hornet), and it's highly probable that this design was approved by the USN Navair team at a very early stage. The Hornet hook offered reliable traps with low probability of arresting gear pendant damage.
As I'be posted before, the original F-35C arresting gear design complied with all the standards and specifications required. The 'hook to main gear' distance was not specified.
My guess (and thats all it is) is that as soon as the problem appeared, an LM/Navair team decided to try another type of hook shape that had worked in the past, accepting the increased possibility of arresting gear damage from the sharper hook point. It appears to have worked, as the aircraft would not have been allowed anywhere near the deck unless it had passed a fairly stringent series of tests.
What this illustrates is that the USN and Navair tend to operate in a fairly empirical fashion (if it's worked before, it will work this time). Many of their standards and specifications do little more than codify previous successful design solutions. (Large chunks of Def Stan 00-970 did the same thing for many years, and continue to do so today). Given the complexities and uncertainties involved in trying to accurately model a whipping arresting wire, it's an understandable approach.
Hope this helps
Engines
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The HORNET family shape works with their geometry. The story is that someone gave someone else some dud data - misplaced decimal point wise. The text stories are out there whilst this is the word from the VADM responsible at HOOK13. Talk about FeyDecoyDunawayNavSysCom.... WOOPS - thanks 'Engines' (seems as if I was typing whilst you were posting....).
Last edited by SpazSinbad; 17th Nov 2014 at 08:56. Reason: WOOPS
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Carrier Trials Wrap Up 16 Nov 2014
Carrier Trials Wrap Up | Code One Magazine [Pic: http://www.codeonemagazine.com/image...28237_5479.jpg ]
"....wrapped up on 14 November. The trials ended with pilots in F35C test aircraft CF-3 and CF-5 performing 124 arrested landings; 222 touch-and-goes; two bolters, both intentional for test purposes; and 124 catapult launches on thirty-two flights covering 38.6 flight hours."
Last edited by SpazSinbad; 17th Nov 2014 at 17:55. Reason: Adpic
Spaz, thanks for the video link. A very engaging panel of speakers. I have to say that it's encouraging to hear most of what they say, I still find two things there very worrying.
Whilst I get their points about the C hook, it still seems somewhat sloppy to get that far into the program with so little knowledge of the problem. "Who'd have thought it?" He said. Well you're paid to think of things like that. I can see the arguments coming on that one.
As for the misplaced decimal point, words fail me.
Whilst I get their points about the C hook, it still seems somewhat sloppy to get that far into the program with so little knowledge of the problem. "Who'd have thought it?" He said. Well you're paid to think of things like that. I can see the arguments coming on that one.
As for the misplaced decimal point, words fail me.
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Humans eh. And they respond well to 'wire brushing'. Meanwhile just a quick add to the stats above:
F-35 Completes First Round Of Tests On U.S. Navy Ship - Business Insider
"...two F-35 jets used for the tests completed 32 flights and achieved 458 unique test points...
One can imagine how much pressure was put on the F-35C hook design team in the early days to use the same shoe as the F-18 to keep consumable inventory to a minimum and give the DOD quantity of scale savings on ordering.
For the guys in the video to ridicule the team that did the hook design strikes me as 'knocking the little guy', as I wouldn't mind betting that the warnings of a forthcoming problem had been coming up the chain for a long time before the guys at the top took their fingers out of their ears.
For the guys in the video to ridicule the team that did the hook design strikes me as 'knocking the little guy', as I wouldn't mind betting that the warnings of a forthcoming problem had been coming up the chain for a long time before the guys at the top took their fingers out of their ears.
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Must have good legs according to this quote, and I think the 'cross deck pendant' is replaced after 100 uses or otherwise if damage noted - earlier. There will be references to this SOP out there.
F-35C shines in first carrier trials aboard carrier Nimitz 17 Nov 2014 Joshua Stewart
F-35C shines in first carrier trials aboard carrier Nimitz
F-35C shines in first carrier trials aboard carrier Nimitz 17 Nov 2014 Joshua Stewart
"...The F-35C test pilots have made approximately 100 traps on the Nimitz, and the three wire was caught so many times that the metal cable had to be replaced. The one wire, the cable furthest aft on the flight deck, hadn't been used at all, Wilson said.
"We've been beating up the three wire," he said.
When it snags that wire, pilots have a softer landing in the F-35C than what they're used to in legacy aircraft, Wilson said...."
"We've been beating up the three wire," he said.
When it snags that wire, pilots have a softer landing in the F-35C than what they're used to in legacy aircraft, Wilson said...."
Last edited by SpazSinbad; 17th Nov 2014 at 21:34. Reason: spac
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CM, While I'm not a real engineer I did get a degree in said topic. One of the things that struck me then and now is that a lot of engineering is based on rules of thumb derived from empirical data. The public tends to think of engineering in the computer age as knowing and accurately modeling things based on physics alone when there is still a large part played by rules of thumb.
One example: on a tail rotor helo, it works better if the forward blade is traveling up, I've heard all sorts of theories as to why and yet Ray Prouty wrote once that know one really knows why. It's enough to know that this setup works better, so there's no reason to delve into it further and another rule of thumb is born.
One example: on a tail rotor helo, it works better if the forward blade is traveling up, I've heard all sorts of theories as to why and yet Ray Prouty wrote once that know one really knows why. It's enough to know that this setup works better, so there's no reason to delve into it further and another rule of thumb is born.
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Reference to replacement cycle is here: page 8
http://www.dtic.mil/get-tr-doc/pdf?AD=ADA419423 (PDF 2Mb)
&
GO Here for some previously unknown to me [FWIW] details:
F-35C Completes Initial Sea Trials aboard Aircraft Carrier Story Number: NNS141117-13 Release Date: 11/17/2014
http://www.navy.mil/submit/display.asp?story_id=84481
"...The cross-deck pendants are disposable and are replaced after 100 hits or sooner if damaged...."
&
GO Here for some previously unknown to me [FWIW] details:
F-35C Completes Initial Sea Trials aboard Aircraft Carrier Story Number: NNS141117-13 Release Date: 11/17/2014
"..."We had such confidence in how the plane is flying that we lowered the weather minimums to what the fleet is actually using, knowing that when I lower my hook and come into the groove I'm going to trap," said Lt. Cmdr. Ted Dyckman, Navy test pilot. "That says a lot for the airplane. So, when it came time for night traps, we said the plane is ready and we launched it. It flew very well behind the ship. Even on the darkest night - pretty much as dark as you can get behind the boat. Two hook-down passes and two traps and that says it all right there. It's unheard of to conduct night ops on the first det."
"The engineers responsible for the aircraft's control laws at Pax (Patuxent) River and Fort Worth have done a phenomenal job designing a carefree aircraft from the pilot's perspective," said Cmdr. Tony Wilson, DT I Team Lead. "The F-35C's performance on the ball was revolutionary, providing carefree handling on approach. The Integrated Direct Lift Control (IDLC) allows ball control like no other aircraft. The control schemes of the F-35C provide a tool for the below average ball flyer to compete for top hook. And, Delta Flight Path is an innovative leap in aircraft flight controls - this command enables the F-35 to capture and maintain a glideslope, greatly reducing pilot workload, increasing safety margins during carrier approaches and reducing touchdown dispersion."
The cadre of DT-I test pilots logged a total of 39.2 flight hours as they conducted 33 flights featuring 124 catapults, 222 touch-and-go landings, and 124 arrestments. There were zero unintentional hook-down bolters, or missed attempts to catch an arresting wire on the flight deck. (Two hook-down, intentional bolters were conducted as part of the DT-I test plan.)
Successful carrier landings of the F-35C also point to an effective re-design of the once-troubled tailhook. Initial testing shore-based testing pointed toward tailhook design issues and the Atlantic Test Range (ATR) at NAS Patuxent River captured critical measurement data with their precision photogrammetric technology and modeling capabilities. The re-design collaboration between Lockheed Martin and Fokker Technologies of the Netherlands - with insight and participation by Navy airworthiness engineers - has yielded a preponderance of three-wire landings during DT-I and firmly established the success of the redesign...."
"The engineers responsible for the aircraft's control laws at Pax (Patuxent) River and Fort Worth have done a phenomenal job designing a carefree aircraft from the pilot's perspective," said Cmdr. Tony Wilson, DT I Team Lead. "The F-35C's performance on the ball was revolutionary, providing carefree handling on approach. The Integrated Direct Lift Control (IDLC) allows ball control like no other aircraft. The control schemes of the F-35C provide a tool for the below average ball flyer to compete for top hook. And, Delta Flight Path is an innovative leap in aircraft flight controls - this command enables the F-35 to capture and maintain a glideslope, greatly reducing pilot workload, increasing safety margins during carrier approaches and reducing touchdown dispersion."
The cadre of DT-I test pilots logged a total of 39.2 flight hours as they conducted 33 flights featuring 124 catapults, 222 touch-and-go landings, and 124 arrestments. There were zero unintentional hook-down bolters, or missed attempts to catch an arresting wire on the flight deck. (Two hook-down, intentional bolters were conducted as part of the DT-I test plan.)
Successful carrier landings of the F-35C also point to an effective re-design of the once-troubled tailhook. Initial testing shore-based testing pointed toward tailhook design issues and the Atlantic Test Range (ATR) at NAS Patuxent River captured critical measurement data with their precision photogrammetric technology and modeling capabilities. The re-design collaboration between Lockheed Martin and Fokker Technologies of the Netherlands - with insight and participation by Navy airworthiness engineers - has yielded a preponderance of three-wire landings during DT-I and firmly established the success of the redesign...."
Last edited by SpazSinbad; 18th Nov 2014 at 00:12. Reason: spax