F35 C first deck landing
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Orca, not a problem. No need to apologise. 
I understand that some questions may seem obvious to those who are serving or have served, but for those not in the loop, it can be pretty damned complicated. I'm trying to learn as much about aircraft as I possibly can from the professionals who operate the machines and the experts who maintain them, trying to mentally prepare myself for the dreaded selection process at OASC, assuming I meet the health requirements at that time.
Thank you to everyone for your very helpful input, as always.
T.
I understand that some questions may seem obvious to those who are serving or have served, but for those not in the loop, it can be pretty damned complicated. I'm trying to learn as much about aircraft as I possibly can from the professionals who operate the machines and the experts who maintain them, trying to mentally prepare myself for the dreaded selection process at OASC, assuming I meet the health requirements at that time.Thank you to everyone for your very helpful input, as always.
T.
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Lone wolf,
I asked the question because I have had a number of traps when the target wasn't the three. I was questioning the use of the word always. I have even managed to be graded a Fair One, because the three and four weren't there. I have also had an OK four wire.
In fact in LSO NATOPs (from memory) it gave a very in depth account of how the roll angle of the fresnel lens could be adjusted to affect hook impact point wrt the target wire but never actually stated what the target wire was.
Just to enhance the debate further I had my first trap on a three wire boat.
I asked the question because I have had a number of traps when the target wasn't the three. I was questioning the use of the word always. I have even managed to be graded a Fair One, because the three and four weren't there. I have also had an OK four wire.
In fact in LSO NATOPs (from memory) it gave a very in depth account of how the roll angle of the fresnel lens could be adjusted to affect hook impact point wrt the target wire but never actually stated what the target wire was.
Just to enhance the debate further I had my first trap on a three wire boat.
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When you say 'always' do you actually mean 'always' and with all aircraft?
I only ask because I've seen plenty of occasions where that's not the case.
I only ask because I've seen plenty of occasions where that's not the case.
BTW, I heard but cannot confirm that CVN-77 and later will have only 3 cross deck pendants (arrestor wires). Can anyone confirm?
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I asked the question because I have had a number of traps when the target wasn't the three. I was questioning the use of the word always. I have even managed to be graded a Fair One, because the three and four weren't there. I have also had an OK four wire.
Just to enhance the debate further I had my first trap on a three wire boat.
Just to enhance the debate further I had my first trap on a three wire boat.
The only exception to the 3-wire target I've ever heard of is when the 3-wire had failed and the meatball was adjusted to another wire.
And you got a Fair One? I've never heard of that. The LSOs I've had experience with would have called a 1-wire trap Unsat. Interesting. But then again, I've never experienced a trap with only a 1 and 2 wire available. When was this and which boat?
Orca, thanks. I now understand your point.
If during a recovery the three snaps (which can happen) or is for any other reason out of service, then another wire will have to do.
Cheers.
If during a recovery the three snaps (which can happen) or is for any other reason out of service, then another wire will have to do.
Cheers.
Last edited by Lonewolf_50; 5th Nov 2014 at 18:24.
As the originator of the "always" - that was obviously based on a fully functioning system with the 3-wire being the target. Clearly if the engine is knackered or the pendant isn't rigged then the "target" will change. AIUI the default setting on the Fresnel is for touchdown just aft of 3 wire (2' or so if memory serves), which goes to show the precision involved. As Orca says you can adjust the alignment to vary the touchdown point if required by circumstance (defective system, recovery case).
Three wire systems are going to be the norm (four Mk7 engines - one for the barrier) from CVN76 onwards, but all CVN prior to that still have the 4 wire system. Charles de Gaulle is a three wire system as well I think. You just change the position relative to the rounddown / fantail based on glideslope and desired hook - ramp clearance.
Three wire systems are going to be the norm (four Mk7 engines - one for the barrier) from CVN76 onwards, but all CVN prior to that still have the 4 wire system. Charles de Gaulle is a three wire system as well I think. You just change the position relative to the rounddown / fantail based on glideslope and desired hook - ramp clearance.
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Ken,
Believe me I have plenty of No Grade Ones to my name. The boat was the Carl Vinson on Valentines of last year somewhere off San Diego. One of those nights when you hear loads of guys coming back into the bolter/ wave off pattern and realise that flying the crester isn't going to cut it. Plenty of 'Easy with it's' on the R/T. The two jets in front of me ended up at North Island - so I guess I was the stupid one!
Believe me I have plenty of No Grade Ones to my name. The boat was the Carl Vinson on Valentines of last year somewhere off San Diego. One of those nights when you hear loads of guys coming back into the bolter/ wave off pattern and realise that flying the crester isn't going to cut it. Plenty of 'Easy with it's' on the R/T. The two jets in front of me ended up at North Island - so I guess I was the stupid one!
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Oh for the halcyon days, onboard the old Strike carriers , when the old and bolds had 4 greens to land , and always took the number two wire
. Or a visit to Commander Air !!! 
. Or a visit to Commander Air !!!
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You're definitely way after my time. I started out in Scooters (AKA Heineman's hot rod, Skyhawk, A-4) . Haven't lined up on a meatball since the latter 90s, so it's going on two decades. Sounds like some things have changed a bit.
Anyone else out there an old school Scooter driver?
Anyone else out there an old school Scooter driver?
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I'm especially intrigued by this statement from the linked article:
"The digital backbone, the way it integrates the sensor information and weapons information is very important to the high-end battle space that the Navy and Marine Corps will operate in the future," said Vice Adm. David H. Buss, Commander, Naval Air Forces.
Current Navy plans are to have considerably more F/A-18E/Fs than F-35Cs in their future air wings. It sounds to me that ALL these "very important" features could be included in those F/A-18s without excessive effort. I wonder if there are plans to do that.
"The digital backbone, the way it integrates the sensor information and weapons information is very important to the high-end battle space that the Navy and Marine Corps will operate in the future," said Vice Adm. David H. Buss, Commander, Naval Air Forces.
Current Navy plans are to have considerably more F/A-18E/Fs than F-35Cs in their future air wings. It sounds to me that ALL these "very important" features could be included in those F/A-18s without excessive effort. I wonder if there are plans to do that.
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Originally Posted by KenV
It sounds to me that ALL these "very important" features could be included in those F/A-18s without excessive effort.
That would involve considerable effort and cost.
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It depends what the Admiral means and how the USN intends to use the aircraft in mutually supporting roles.
The Super Hornet already has one of, if not the best radars in the world and a fantastic MIDS fit. It also has a very good EW suite. If your 'rank and file' is that good then you don't necessarily need everyone to have the 'exquisite' fit that the F-35 has.
The Super Hornet has about as much to do with the classic as the F15 does to the P51.
The Super Hornet already has one of, if not the best radars in the world and a fantastic MIDS fit. It also has a very good EW suite. If your 'rank and file' is that good then you don't necessarily need everyone to have the 'exquisite' fit that the F-35 has.
The Super Hornet has about as much to do with the classic as the F15 does to the P51.
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Aw shucks 'GK121' posted the graphic already. I think 'mechta' asked about the new hook? I'll get back to that later. Meanwhile back at the ranchero....
I doubt anyone here will ever meet me but here is the latest news....
F-35C Initial At-Sea Testing Progressing Aboard USS Nimitz 08 Nov 2014 USN PR
The United States Navy (via noodls) / F-35C Initial At-Sea Testing Progressing Aboard USS Nimitz
I doubt anyone here will ever meet me but here is the latest news....
F-35C Initial At-Sea Testing Progressing Aboard USS Nimitz 08 Nov 2014 USN PR
"SAN DIEGO (NNS) -- The F-35C Lightning II, the carrier variant of the Joint Strike Fighter, continues initial sea trials aboard the aircraft carrier USS Nimitz (CVN 68) off the coast of Southern California.
Through Nov. 6, the fourth day of at-sea testing, two test F-35C aircraft have completed 12 flights. During those 12 flights, the aircraft flew a combined 12.7 flight hours and accomplished 203 test points.
The Navy's newest fixed-wing fighter performed 55 catapult launches, 84 planned touch-and-go landings and 57 arrested landings. Through four days of at-sea testing, the test team successfully landed during every attempt, with zero bolters, or failures to catch an arresting cable on the flight deck.
With the last of the four test pilots completing carrier qualifications Nov. 6, all aircrew members are now carrier-qualified and able to fly the aircraft in test events.
During the first stage of developmental testing, the test team conducts a series of events designed to gradually expand the aircraft-operating envelope at sea. Events scheduled for Nov. 7 center on crosswind catapult launches and crosswind approaches to test the aircraft's ability to perform in both nominal and off-nominal conditions.
At-sea test delivers the opportunity to conduct operations in preparation for Navy F-35C initial operational capability scheduled for 2018."
Through Nov. 6, the fourth day of at-sea testing, two test F-35C aircraft have completed 12 flights. During those 12 flights, the aircraft flew a combined 12.7 flight hours and accomplished 203 test points.
The Navy's newest fixed-wing fighter performed 55 catapult launches, 84 planned touch-and-go landings and 57 arrested landings. Through four days of at-sea testing, the test team successfully landed during every attempt, with zero bolters, or failures to catch an arresting cable on the flight deck.
With the last of the four test pilots completing carrier qualifications Nov. 6, all aircrew members are now carrier-qualified and able to fly the aircraft in test events.
During the first stage of developmental testing, the test team conducts a series of events designed to gradually expand the aircraft-operating envelope at sea. Events scheduled for Nov. 7 center on crosswind catapult launches and crosswind approaches to test the aircraft's ability to perform in both nominal and off-nominal conditions.
At-sea test delivers the opportunity to conduct operations in preparation for Navy F-35C initial operational capability scheduled for 2018."
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'KenV' asked:
For what it is worth - now some forty years ago - from 1970 until mid 1974 with RAN basic training from 1966 then RAAF basic/advanced training from more or less 1968 then on to NAS Nowra from 1969. Was early years of the A4G in the RAN FAA so things were slow for new pilots. Sadly the RAAF did not have a carrier to qualify upon (nor the aircraft) so it was not until late 1971 that I earnt my wings (yes it was or still is Navy tradition not to have wings confirmed until at least first arrest/cat - hence significance of such events for aircrew and aircraft). Not unsurprisingly either in those early years with MELBOURNE being hammered and tickled for the new aircraft and not so readily available, that my first 'deck landing' was only a series of four touch and goes on the venerable HMS Eagle on a farewell tour in the antipodes at the time. A month or so later was my first arrest/cat. Mind boggling stuff on the shortish/thinnish MELBOURNE. 
Hook to ramp clearance was 6 foot with NATOPS guidelines stating min. was 6.5 so we were a bit under. NAS Nowra runways were just over 6,000 feet with also min. NATOPS saying similar. Sporty landings ashore on wet runways for sure - especially if returning from carrier with carrier tyre pressures [and don't forget to ARM the SPOILERS!]. At least we had nosewheel steering and spoilers so we were spoilt in that regard but nowt else (except for four underwing AIM-9Bs).
Oh and MELBOURNE had FIVE wires in the A4G/S2E-G era when in earlier times for Sea Venoms/Gannets she had SIX wires. With all five set target wire was usually no.4 but often not all wires set as explained by others. The worst I had were three which was likely the minimum and briefly NONE when circling overhead with nowhere else to go for an hour and no tanker south of Hawaii. Thank goodness promises were kept and wires back up for my best ever deck landing - as I recall. :-)
"Anyone else out there an old school Scooter driver?"
Hook to ramp clearance was 6 foot with NATOPS guidelines stating min. was 6.5 so we were a bit under. NAS Nowra runways were just over 6,000 feet with also min. NATOPS saying similar. Sporty landings ashore on wet runways for sure - especially if returning from carrier with carrier tyre pressures [and don't forget to ARM the SPOILERS!]. At least we had nosewheel steering and spoilers so we were spoilt in that regard but nowt else (except for four underwing AIM-9Bs).
Oh and MELBOURNE had FIVE wires in the A4G/S2E-G era when in earlier times for Sea Venoms/Gannets she had SIX wires. With all five set target wire was usually no.4 but often not all wires set as explained by others. The worst I had were three which was likely the minimum and briefly NONE when circling overhead with nowhere else to go for an hour and no tanker south of Hawaii. Thank goodness promises were kept and wires back up for my best ever deck landing - as I recall. :-)
Last edited by SpazSinbad; 8th Nov 2014 at 18:14. Reason: wired spoiler alert
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'Mechta' said on page two:
That would be the situation with the new F-35C hook design. What that translates to during carrier ops is being quantified now. To my eye the new F-35C hook mouth looks like an A-4 hook design. Which was sharpened by the deck and had to be unsharpened at regular intervals with a BIG FILE - by one account - to stop it from unnecessarily damaging the wires/pendants.
There is a classic VF-805 line book photo/page entry about one chap taking no.5 wire which had been or was damaged and hanging by a thread.
We lost one A4G from a wire break (under the deck from faulty maintenance). Thankfully the USN exchange pilot ejected in time safely without injury. Gotta like zero/zero rocket seats.
"...I take it the new hook is optimized for trapping the wire rather than minimising damage to the pendant. From what I have read, a flat bottom gives a good trap, but the sharp edge is prone to cutting the wire (or pendant), so a rounded lower edge was normal on most recent carrier aircraft to reduce the likelihood of the hook wearing to a sharp cutting edge."
There is a classic VF-805 line book photo/page entry about one chap taking no.5 wire which had been or was damaged and hanging by a thread.
We lost one A4G from a wire break (under the deck from faulty maintenance). Thankfully the USN exchange pilot ejected in time safely without injury. Gotta like zero/zero rocket seats.