Speechless -David Haines
QUOTE: I am afraid your figures are wrong. On the first day when the butcher Haig sent in the troops on the Somme - 60,000 died. A huge loss of life when one thinks that a General can use men as cannon fodder. Few people have ever justified ANY reason he gave and, in my view, it was slaughter of a magnitude never before seen.
Tripe of the highest order. But then facts never got in the way of a good story, did they?
Tripe of the highest order. But then facts never got in the way of a good story, did they?
60,000 died
Not so. There were some 60,000 casualties which included those KIA and WIA. Roughly 1/3 KIA.
Never let the facts stand in the way of a good story!
I just wish all the girls and boys committed by various Governments stay safe. It is a dangerous World out there and not just in theatre. [ask the Rigby family]
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Danny, red post #33
I.S. Are wanting a response, but they want the response they are used to the West giving, which would suit your post and work well for I.S.
My impression of a lot of posts in this thread are that people are asking for a very effective and prompt response, but a response that doesn't amount to getting sucked in or making ISs tactics/strategy worthwhile.
A long ' boots on the ground' response would be very different to precision carpet bombing (I may just have made that name up, but hopefully you get the concept) from a few waves of B1b bombers with weapons striking 100 targets simultaneously. Just do that for a while.
Here is something else a bit nasty to add to the debate. How about hanging every immediate family member of anyone caught in one of these beheading vids.
Do it publicly on TV if needs be, but make it known that participating in acts of brutality is sentencing your own family to a public death sentence. This would work on many levels, and may stop these vids being aired but may make the occasional family think about how happy they are for their son to go and join in the fight abroad.
This was just something I discussed with someone, despite it being illegal and not how we have done things in recent years.
I.S. Are wanting a response, but they want the response they are used to the West giving, which would suit your post and work well for I.S.
My impression of a lot of posts in this thread are that people are asking for a very effective and prompt response, but a response that doesn't amount to getting sucked in or making ISs tactics/strategy worthwhile.
A long ' boots on the ground' response would be very different to precision carpet bombing (I may just have made that name up, but hopefully you get the concept) from a few waves of B1b bombers with weapons striking 100 targets simultaneously. Just do that for a while.
Here is something else a bit nasty to add to the debate. How about hanging every immediate family member of anyone caught in one of these beheading vids.
Do it publicly on TV if needs be, but make it known that participating in acts of brutality is sentencing your own family to a public death sentence. This would work on many levels, and may stop these vids being aired but may make the occasional family think about how happy they are for their son to go and join in the fight abroad.
This was just something I discussed with someone, despite it being illegal and not how we have done things in recent years.
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Barnstormer 1968,
How about we don't fight extremism with extremism - what a blind and utterly stupid suggestion. Do you honestly believe that every family are aware of exactly what their children are doing? Do you honestly believe that the sins of the son or daughter are the sins of the parents. Just exactly what are you smoking?!! 
Here is something else a bit nasty to add to the debate. How about hanging every immediate family member of anyone caught in one of these beheading vids.
Do it publicly on TV if needs be, but make it known that participating in acts of brutality is sentencing your own family to a public death sentence. This would work on many levels, and may stop these vids being aired but may make the occasional family think about how happy they are for their son to go and join in the fight abroad.
Do it publicly on TV if needs be, but make it known that participating in acts of brutality is sentencing your own family to a public death sentence. This would work on many levels, and may stop these vids being aired but may make the occasional family think about how happy they are for their son to go and join in the fight abroad.
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Here is something else a bit nasty to add to the debate. How about hanging every immediate family member of anyone caught in one of these beheading vids.
Do it publicly on TV if needs be, but make it known that participating in acts of brutality is sentencing your own family to a public death sentence. This would work on many levels, and may stop these vids being aired but may make the occasional family think about how happy they are for their son to go and join in the fight abroad.
Do it publicly on TV if needs be, but make it known that participating in acts of brutality is sentencing your own family to a public death sentence. This would work on many levels, and may stop these vids being aired but may make the occasional family think about how happy they are for their son to go and join in the fight abroad.
We got rid of capital punishment for murder somewhere around 1965, although it hung around for some bizarre crimes like setting fire to HM Dockyards for a few years after that.
Now you're going to re-introduce it for a new crime. Not for murder, but for having a brother, son, father etc who is a murderer.
Oh dear, here I go, feeding the trolls. Please tell me you're a troll and not a raving lunatic!
Now you're going to re-introduce it for a new crime. Not for murder, but for having a brother, son, father etc who is a murderer.
Oh dear, here I go, feeding the trolls. Please tell me you're a troll and not a raving lunatic!
Sounds reasonable to me...but then I always believed in "an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth"! It's a nasty world out there and the days of a toe to toe fight, Queensbury Rules and Geneva Convention, are fast diminishing. Indeed some of our own 'Rock Apes' that served in Aden can tell us that from 40 years ago!
Indeed some of our own 'Rock Apes' that served in Aden can tell us that from 40 years ago!
) I can confirm that there were well known cases of summary justice being meted out when individuals had been caught. The nearest the army came to what might be called group action was when "Mad Mitch" and his Argylls reoccupied Crater City, during which period a number of known terrorists were shot. But there is a world of difference between that and doing what the SS were famous for, ie summarily executing civilians as a reprisal for actions taken by others, which appears to what is being advocated by some on here.I'm certain that neither the RAF Regiment, nor any other British military unit in Aden acted in that way, and I'm sure you're not advocating that sort of thing, L-J
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MSOCS and vendee.
I didn't suggest anything, but did say it was something I'd discussed.
I also discussed doing nothing at all, but history has shown that to be a really stupid tactic.
MSOCS.
I also didn't say the sins of the child are the sins of the parent........you just added that bit after you failed to read what I had typed.
On the other hand, if you had a child that was going to go out to another country to murder totally innocent people would you condone it, do nothing at all or try to stop them?
You will hopefully now have read that my post said the idea could work on many levels........
So, just as history tells us doing nothing is a silly option it also has a myriad of cases where executions of family members/local community can limit a resistance or terror group.
As per my initial post this was just something I had discussed. The discussion came about after hearing about two men. One did nothing against terrorism and the other was a terrorist...........oh yes, that's right it was the two men this thread started with !
Remind me again how successful the do nothing option was in this case!
Edited to add: yes I do believe that some parents and family members know exactly where their children are going..........oddly enough I was more convinced of this after a recent period spent in Burnley and the surrounding area. It's funny but hearing these things from the horses mouth is a bit more convincing than you thinking they don't
I don't live in a fluffy world where a parent's child disappears for six months, perhaps posts on social media or talks to friends and yet the parent thinks the child is having an extended holiday in Blackpool rather than in Iraq or Syria.
I didn't suggest anything, but did say it was something I'd discussed.
I also discussed doing nothing at all, but history has shown that to be a really stupid tactic.
MSOCS.
I also didn't say the sins of the child are the sins of the parent........you just added that bit after you failed to read what I had typed.
On the other hand, if you had a child that was going to go out to another country to murder totally innocent people would you condone it, do nothing at all or try to stop them?
You will hopefully now have read that my post said the idea could work on many levels........
So, just as history tells us doing nothing is a silly option it also has a myriad of cases where executions of family members/local community can limit a resistance or terror group.
As per my initial post this was just something I had discussed. The discussion came about after hearing about two men. One did nothing against terrorism and the other was a terrorist...........oh yes, that's right it was the two men this thread started with !
Remind me again how successful the do nothing option was in this case!
Edited to add: yes I do believe that some parents and family members know exactly where their children are going..........oddly enough I was more convinced of this after a recent period spent in Burnley and the surrounding area. It's funny but hearing these things from the horses mouth is a bit more convincing than you thinking they don't
I don't live in a fluffy world where a parent's child disappears for six months, perhaps posts on social media or talks to friends and yet the parent thinks the child is having an extended holiday in Blackpool rather than in Iraq or Syria.
Last edited by barnstormer1968; 17th Sep 2014 at 14:26.
QUOTE:
We got rid of capital punishment for murder somewhere around 1965, although it hung around
Well, it would, wouldn't it?!
We got rid of capital punishment for murder somewhere around 1965, although it hung around
Well, it would, wouldn't it?!
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This is depraved, barbaric and medieval madness intended to repulse and shock.
TTN
You would be correct - I was trying to emphasise that its a nasty old world out there and you have to stand tough on these types of perpetrators (just like Rock types did - so I've been told as I was too young!).
LJ
I'm sure you're not advocating that sort of thing
LJ
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I have been told that, in the Suez Canal Zone, local bad guys were wont to enter British camp fortifications at night to steal anything not nailed down or worn about the person. They - once! -attempted this activity at a camp where Gurkha troops were stationed. The head of one malefactor was displayed on a pole to deter others similarly minded, and apparently it had the desired effect.
(Allegedly)
(Allegedly)
In EOKA days there were definitely instances of instant justice meted out. I arrived at RAF Nicosia immediately after it calmed down [the first civvy NOT to be issued with a side-arm] and the tales in the Mess were specific and left no room for doubt.
So what?
So what?
Yes, so what? But dealing summarily with known terrorists in places such as Cyprus, Aden, Egypt etc is a world away from these suggestions:
Sure, it's going to deal with the IS guys, what a shame about all the Kurds, moderate Iraqis and all the rest who also want to see the back of IS as soon as possible. Still no doubt the advocates of the above regard them as expendable.
A bucket if sunshine for Northern Iraq sounds better every day.
Thermobaric - same effect but no fallout!
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Violence simply breeds violence.
We've meted out plenty recently and been on the receiving end as well. Some of the horrific violence unleashed on the ordinary people of the world was done by the people on these pages, lurking within in these forums. We've all played a part in it, one way or another.
And at times I ask myself a fat lot of good it really did for peace and stability, in retrospect.
Truthfully we in the world need to break this cycle, we need to be more anti-war.
Perhaps there must be something in this for more of our UK politicians - the SNP have been on a partial anti-war ticket in the referendum and it struck a chord with many. Wish England's would do the same.
*I don't actually think some of the people in Gaza will stop attacking Israel because of recent bombing anymore than the Germans gave up after the Battle of the Ruhr, or Berlin. It all just doesn't work, and the sooner mankind realises this the better.
And at times I ask myself a fat lot of good it really did for peace and stability, in retrospect.
Truthfully we in the world need to break this cycle, we need to be more anti-war.
Perhaps there must be something in this for more of our UK politicians - the SNP have been on a partial anti-war ticket in the referendum and it struck a chord with many. Wish England's would do the same.
*I don't actually think some of the people in Gaza will stop attacking Israel because of recent bombing anymore than the Germans gave up after the Battle of the Ruhr, or Berlin. It all just doesn't work, and the sooner mankind realises this the better.
A noble sentiment indeed Hangershuffle, unfortunately I think you are dreaming of utopia and not the real world ...
The fanatics who wish to set up an Islamic State actually want an Islamic World, and will stop at nothing to attain that, they seek the destruction of all else in just the same way that the Palestinians vowed intent is the destruction of Israel....
It is very difficult to have a meaningful discussion about peace with someone who has vowed to destroy you at the first opportunity
The fanatics who wish to set up an Islamic State actually want an Islamic World, and will stop at nothing to attain that, they seek the destruction of all else in just the same way that the Palestinians vowed intent is the destruction of Israel....
It is very difficult to have a meaningful discussion about peace with someone who has vowed to destroy you at the first opportunity
