Do you laugh or cry ?
Thread Starter
Do you laugh or cry ?
Thought this might raise a smile or a tear of despair ! Many of you guys will remember Wroughton airfield (now used for storage by the Science Museum) from its RAF, RN or PM hospital days.
I was model flying there when a glider (from Dunstable) landed after running out of lift.
The pilot requested permission from the site manager to carry out an Aerotow back to base. The runway was smooth, over 3000 feet long with 10 knots right down the middle, perfect. No problem at all, BUT he was refused permission. The site manager declined for "safety reasons".
Turns out the pilot was retired Army bomb disposal (IED) specialist.
Can you imagine it, a bomb disposal officer being refused permission for a simple aerotow retrieve on SAFETY ground. You couldn't make it up !
I was model flying there when a glider (from Dunstable) landed after running out of lift.
The pilot requested permission from the site manager to carry out an Aerotow back to base. The runway was smooth, over 3000 feet long with 10 knots right down the middle, perfect. No problem at all, BUT he was refused permission. The site manager declined for "safety reasons".
Turns out the pilot was retired Army bomb disposal (IED) specialist.
Can you imagine it, a bomb disposal officer being refused permission for a simple aerotow retrieve on SAFETY ground. You couldn't make it up !
I guess the problem lies in a number of areas? As a Govt Aerodrome (even if disused) then they would need some fire cover of some sort (JSP426 and all, plus the BGA Laws and Rules requires a fire extinguisher at the launch point?). Has the runway been swept so that the tug or glider dosen't have a nose over on landing when it's tyres have gone flat? What about obstacle clearance (as most glider tug combos make about 3-400ft per minute at best)? Etc???
If the site manager had allowed the glider/tug to take off and there had been an fatal accident then both he and the Head of Establishment would be in the Coroner's Court. Both would get it in the neck from their own organisation as well - no one has authorised them to operate aircraft from their establishment.
Things have changed since 'dig my heel in the ground, stick a finger in the air and think "that looks about right"!' For better or worse, it was probably the right decision to get a trailer over and take it home that way... Discretion being the better part of valour...
LJ
If the site manager had allowed the glider/tug to take off and there had been an fatal accident then both he and the Head of Establishment would be in the Coroner's Court. Both would get it in the neck from their own organisation as well - no one has authorised them to operate aircraft from their establishment.
Things have changed since 'dig my heel in the ground, stick a finger in the air and think "that looks about right"!' For better or worse, it was probably the right decision to get a trailer over and take it home that way... Discretion being the better part of valour...
LJ
Thread Starter
Not sure I agree with you. He was very happy with the runway,obstacles etc., for an aerotow retrieve, so was I (I am a gliding instructor with a lot of tow experience too) and all safety considerations could be met as here:
http://www.gliding.co.uk/bgainfo/clu...erotownotes.pd
http://www.gliding.co.uk/bgainfo/clu...erotownotes.pd
Reminds me of many years ago when I was a young J/T on 231 OCU - in the line toilets - on the inside of one of the 'trap' doors was a poster !
It said -'Promote Flight Safety' to which some wag had added -
'By not Fokin Flying' !
I often wonder if that author is now running ATC Gliding or perhaps Wroughton
It said -'Promote Flight Safety' to which some wag had added -
'By not Fokin Flying' !
I often wonder if that author is now running ATC Gliding or perhaps Wroughton
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Two infringement tickets were issued by the Regimental Police. One was for passing a 4 tonner on the wrong side, the other was for going through a red traffic light.
Flew WD935 into Wroughton on its last flight in about 1967, and went to a Large Model Association meeting there many years later, when they also opened the reserve collection hangar(s). What treasures.
The sniffy attitude of the Science Museum 'custodians' of Wroughton has to be experienced at first hand to be believed. A bigger load of jobsworths it is hard to imagine.....
Definetly cry. 3,000ft runway and 10kts on the nose - you could probably take a C-47 and get a Horsa or Waco out! In fact, I bet the runway situation was probably better than homeplate! It seems that everyone in the UK is scared of their own shadow.
Retired BA
From your link it states:
My bold added
LJ
PS. I had a retireve at my airfield last night by a glider from Lasham. We stood up fire cover and the tug lifted after normal hours to take him home. I'm all for the gliding movement and do not have an axe to grind.
From your link it states:
FIRE TRUCK
On an unlicensed airfield there is not normally a requirement to have any fire fighting and rescue equipment. However, it is strongly suggested that some sort of truck containing fire fighting equipment, rescue equipment and first aid kit is available. A list of actions in the event of an accident should also be kept in that vehicle. Immediate communications with the emergency services should always be available, so make sure the airfield mobile phone is charged and on the ground where it’s needed. If your club has such a vehicle or facility, please ensure that it is actually available for immediate use. Murphy’s Law says the truck is stuck in the back of the hangar just when it is needed!
On an unlicensed airfield there is not normally a requirement to have any fire fighting and rescue equipment. However, it is strongly suggested that some sort of truck containing fire fighting equipment, rescue equipment and first aid kit is available. A list of actions in the event of an accident should also be kept in that vehicle. Immediate communications with the emergency services should always be available, so make sure the airfield mobile phone is charged and on the ground where it’s needed. If your club has such a vehicle or facility, please ensure that it is actually available for immediate use. Murphy’s Law says the truck is stuck in the back of the hangar just when it is needed!
LJ
PS. I had a retireve at my airfield last night by a glider from Lasham. We stood up fire cover and the tug lifted after normal hours to take him home. I'm all for the gliding movement and do not have an axe to grind.
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How to get rid of a pain in the @rse
Re. post 12 - I used to know somebody who'd worked for the Science Museum at Wroughton. This person's CV contained any number of short-term 'permanent' jobs with glowing references, including the one from the Science Museum. They turned out to be a power-hungry jobsworth and had to be paid to leave.
Talking of a jobs worth always takes me back to 2003 when I was at HQSTC. My 1 star boss had just come back from an official visit to Henlow in a staff car. He gave me a RAF Police parking ticket he had found under the wiper and asked me to sort it. Noting the name of the brave Cpl that issued it I managed to get though to him at Henlow. He insisted that the Air Cdre must turn up at Hendon Police office in person with his driving docs within 5 days. I advised him it would be a bad idea to do that to his Air Officer Commanding. He then went on to say he believed I was trying to pervert the course of justice and I could be in trouble. I decided to give up then and had a chat with his FS asking if he really wanted my boss to come back. The ticket ended up in the bin..........
Talking of a jobs worth always takes me back to 2003 when I was at HQSTC. My 1 star boss had just come back from an official visit to Henlow in a staff car. He gave me a RAF Police parking ticket he had found under the wiper and asked me to sort it. Noting the name of the brave Cpl that issued it I managed to get though to him at Henlow. He insisted that the Air Cdre must turn up at Hendon Police office in person with his driving docs within 5 days. I advised him it would be a bad idea to do that to his Air Officer Commanding. He then went on to say he believed I was trying to pervert the course of justice and I could be in trouble. I decided to give up then and had a chat with his FS asking if he really wanted my boss to come back. The ticket ended up in the bin........
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First Mistake was asking for permission! Aero tow arrives, hooks up and you both depart. Bye,bye to the problem...
So would you have rushed out and tell him to move it? And far from arrogant he was one of the best bosses I've ever had. As for SSO's, did anyone read them when visiting a unit..... In fact did anyone really read their own units edition...
I'm with you OOT.
I have aerotowed out of some interesting places after 'landing out' - many where the only way to have got the trailer in was by Heli!
I was once landed out in the North island of New Zealand. At the time the Pawnee tug was U/S so, when I knew I was committed to landing I chose a field next to a farm lane for easy access with the trailer.
Upon landing I walked round the field and to my surprise there was no gate in the boundary fence. The crazy Kiwi farmer had a field with no gate and I had managed to land it - bugger! I walked round again to make sure I wasn't losing the plot, but no the field had no gate. I called up the club and told them my predicament and asked they send out quite a few strong blokes as we would have to lift the glider out of the 'paddock' as the locals call it.
Sure enough a while later the cavalry arrive with 6 or 7 blokes to help. The driver takes one look at the field and says " You stupid bloody Pom", then walks over to part of the fence, picks it up and rolls it back to form an opening. " It's a bloody Taranaki fence you dumb s**t". Glider in trailer 5 mins later!
What I did not know then was that the local farmers were often too tight to put in a real gate and just left a part of the fence that could be rolled back then tied up (called a Taranaki fence) - if you looked carefully you could see the hoof marks in the grass where cattle had previously gone through the opening.
As is the custom, the landing out pilot buys his retrieve crew dinner and a beer - bloody expensive landing that was!
Moral of the story (apart from a few negative things about Kiwis) - If you can aerotow out of the field then do so!
I have also had the experience of flying cross country - checking the trailer before flying that is good to go. I ended up landing in a ploughed field (if you are ever tempted to do so don't!) I imagine it is similar to catching an arrestor hook! When the retrieve crew arrived to pick me up they didn't bring the trailer - someone had borrowed the trailer to move something totally unconnected with aircraft and taken it overnight! The trailer thief had gone along the line of trailers till he found one without a glider inside then chose to borrow that one!.
Must be some good landing out stories out there!
I have aerotowed out of some interesting places after 'landing out' - many where the only way to have got the trailer in was by Heli!
I was once landed out in the North island of New Zealand. At the time the Pawnee tug was U/S so, when I knew I was committed to landing I chose a field next to a farm lane for easy access with the trailer.
Upon landing I walked round the field and to my surprise there was no gate in the boundary fence. The crazy Kiwi farmer had a field with no gate and I had managed to land it - bugger! I walked round again to make sure I wasn't losing the plot, but no the field had no gate. I called up the club and told them my predicament and asked they send out quite a few strong blokes as we would have to lift the glider out of the 'paddock' as the locals call it.
Sure enough a while later the cavalry arrive with 6 or 7 blokes to help. The driver takes one look at the field and says " You stupid bloody Pom", then walks over to part of the fence, picks it up and rolls it back to form an opening. " It's a bloody Taranaki fence you dumb s**t". Glider in trailer 5 mins later!
What I did not know then was that the local farmers were often too tight to put in a real gate and just left a part of the fence that could be rolled back then tied up (called a Taranaki fence) - if you looked carefully you could see the hoof marks in the grass where cattle had previously gone through the opening.
As is the custom, the landing out pilot buys his retrieve crew dinner and a beer - bloody expensive landing that was!
Moral of the story (apart from a few negative things about Kiwis) - If you can aerotow out of the field then do so!
I have also had the experience of flying cross country - checking the trailer before flying that is good to go. I ended up landing in a ploughed field (if you are ever tempted to do so don't!) I imagine it is similar to catching an arrestor hook! When the retrieve crew arrived to pick me up they didn't bring the trailer - someone had borrowed the trailer to move something totally unconnected with aircraft and taken it overnight! The trailer thief had gone along the line of trailers till he found one without a glider inside then chose to borrow that one!.
Must be some good landing out stories out there!