Am I correct in what I am seeing re pallets hitting the ground ?
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
I can understand desparate and ignorant people trying to get as close as possible to the delivery.
It used to be the case that Libyan scrap metal dealers would hide behind the target to take immediate delivery of the scrap.
It used to be the case that Libyan scrap metal dealers would hide behind the target to take immediate delivery of the scrap.
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MalDrop and AA62's comments about shortages of parachutes reminds me of similar problem in same part of world (almost). 1965 - 2 Para was based at Hamala and 30 Sqn's Beverleys were at Muharraq as their personal chariots. We had dropped elements of 2 Para in one of the Emirates where they were working with the Trucial Oman Scouts and we were resupplying them by airdrop, using up the majority of our heavy drop parachutes. 24 November the Emir of Kuwait dies - HMG is immediately concerned over the succession and rumblings on the Kuwait/Iraq border, and considers intervention. 30 Sqn goes onto readiness to support 2 Para as required, but oh dear we dont have enough parachutes to effect either an air assault or resupply because they are up in the mountains 400 miles the wrong way down the Gulf. Nothing changes.
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According to a report in the Daily Telegraph: "Iraqi officials said that much of the US aid had been useless because it was dropped without parachutes and exploded on impact."
Sounds a bit odd, particularly as these crews know what they are doing.
Bob C
Sounds a bit odd, particularly as these crews know what they are doing.
Bob C
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From the Telegraph.
Well they obviously haven't watched the video of the drop. 15,000 ft
However, Iraqi officials said that much of the US aid had been “useless” because it was dropped from 15,000ft without parachutes and exploded on impact.
Well they obviously haven't watched the video of the drop. 15,000 ft
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AA62, re Op Bushel relaxation of rules. Thanks.
Funny, I didn't know that - we were just doing it. Mind you, I was just following the skipper (Bob Rowley RIP).
Interesting too we were also dropping at an elevation of around 8,000' so the TAS was considerably higher than all our practices at Sea Level.
Funny, I didn't know that - we were just doing it. Mind you, I was just following the skipper (Bob Rowley RIP).
Interesting too we were also dropping at an elevation of around 8,000' so the TAS was considerably higher than all our practices at Sea Level.
Last edited by Dengue_Dude; 11th Aug 2014 at 20:37. Reason: Forgot to say 'Thanks'
Denge Dude,
when the Op Bushell was brewing up it was realised that out current experience of free drop was limited to the 'pilot's lollipop' singleton after dropping the main stores. I did one of the full a/c load free drops practice and it was very instructive for us all. In Ethiopia the ULLA drop configuration was adopted, 10 feet AGL, gear down. When we did Khana Cascade (Nepal) the drop SOP was similarly amended due to the height etc of some of the DZs. One of the a/c managed to scrape the rear bumper as it climbed away ! Sorry to hear that Bob is no longer with us. I remember him describing his first wet night carrier landing with the F4. Very scary.
when the Op Bushell was brewing up it was realised that out current experience of free drop was limited to the 'pilot's lollipop' singleton after dropping the main stores. I did one of the full a/c load free drops practice and it was very instructive for us all. In Ethiopia the ULLA drop configuration was adopted, 10 feet AGL, gear down. When we did Khana Cascade (Nepal) the drop SOP was similarly amended due to the height etc of some of the DZs. One of the a/c managed to scrape the rear bumper as it climbed away ! Sorry to hear that Bob is no longer with us. I remember him describing his first wet night carrier landing with the F4. Very scary.
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Terminal Velocity
Many years ago when I was on Fat Alberts, I discussed this with a couple of our Belgian C-130 exchange pilots.
Their view was that it was better to drop from a safer, higher altitude - the kit would hit the ground at the same sort of speed, as it could only accelerate to terminal velocity.
ULLA drops have an equivalent landing speed as if we had dropped from a more reasonable altitude.
The kit does not get spread out on the ground if we drop from greater height, so is easier to gather on the ground.
Less likely to hit people as our landing area is small.
Finally, pretty easy to fly as we are at a much higher altitude.
It all seemed to make sense to me at the time.
I don't know it JATE ever trialled such a drop.
Any thoughts as to this approach?
GA
Their view was that it was better to drop from a safer, higher altitude - the kit would hit the ground at the same sort of speed, as it could only accelerate to terminal velocity.
ULLA drops have an equivalent landing speed as if we had dropped from a more reasonable altitude.
The kit does not get spread out on the ground if we drop from greater height, so is easier to gather on the ground.
Less likely to hit people as our landing area is small.
Finally, pretty easy to fly as we are at a much higher altitude.
It all seemed to make sense to me at the time.
I don't know it JATE ever trialled such a drop.
Any thoughts as to this approach?
GA
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Mal Drop, I would have been interested to have read your report on attrition and recovery (or lack of)
GA - Yes JATE did some trials with a copter box - Tri wall box long and thin with flaps folded out and held at a angle with bodge tape.
For Kosovo a qty of 26ft ring slots were bought from the US (Irvin Company) for use above 18K ft to get high away from ground fire and not be so affected by the winds teh rate of descent was 65 ft/sec c/w 19 ft/sec for a standard stores chute. Unfortunatly most of these were disposed of unused under RAB to a barn Nr Cirencester. We tried to buy them back when we were short of stuff in the sand pit
VX275 is correct - dropping water has always proved troublesome with an estimated 10% recovery rate. most of the PET bottles burst.
For MREs we used triwall boxes opened by Static line on exit to scatter the contents. (see the thread AA62 mentions about the roller conveyors) for HUMAId in this situation it was felt to be better than keeping the stores in 1 ton lumps and hurting the recipients - foil pouches fell like rain rather than 2000 lb bombs.
The US appear to be using a low cost 1 ton parachute - these cost less than $800 packed. produced in southern California and AZ using shipped in Mexican labour to get around US laws. The ones I saw in the UK videos are designed to be reused and as a result cost a lot more. Do the maths. UK bean counters can't add up! so much for the teachings on whole life costs!
Pleased to hear the girl on the BBC news (the one who often appears on QT) making a commitment to continue dropping.
Keep safe guys.
GA - Yes JATE did some trials with a copter box - Tri wall box long and thin with flaps folded out and held at a angle with bodge tape.
For Kosovo a qty of 26ft ring slots were bought from the US (Irvin Company) for use above 18K ft to get high away from ground fire and not be so affected by the winds teh rate of descent was 65 ft/sec c/w 19 ft/sec for a standard stores chute. Unfortunatly most of these were disposed of unused under RAB to a barn Nr Cirencester. We tried to buy them back when we were short of stuff in the sand pit
VX275 is correct - dropping water has always proved troublesome with an estimated 10% recovery rate. most of the PET bottles burst.
For MREs we used triwall boxes opened by Static line on exit to scatter the contents. (see the thread AA62 mentions about the roller conveyors) for HUMAId in this situation it was felt to be better than keeping the stores in 1 ton lumps and hurting the recipients - foil pouches fell like rain rather than 2000 lb bombs.
The US appear to be using a low cost 1 ton parachute - these cost less than $800 packed. produced in southern California and AZ using shipped in Mexican labour to get around US laws. The ones I saw in the UK videos are designed to be reused and as a result cost a lot more. Do the maths. UK bean counters can't add up! so much for the teachings on whole life costs!
Pleased to hear the girl on the BBC news (the one who often appears on QT) making a commitment to continue dropping.
Keep safe guys.
Dragartist. Do you remember the ADUX parachute used for one tons?
A parachute made from plastic sacking and bailer twine and bought as a use once and throw away disposable item.
In the late 80's I remember Boscombe being asked to look into why there had been a growing number of MALDROPS involving ADUX. It didn't take much detective work as a squint at the log cards showed canopies with 16 drops, 19 drops etc.
A parachute made from plastic sacking and bailer twine and bought as a use once and throw away disposable item.
In the late 80's I remember Boscombe being asked to look into why there had been a growing number of MALDROPS involving ADUX. It didn't take much detective work as a squint at the log cards showed canopies with 16 drops, 19 drops etc.
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Latest drop video just released by the MOD ... clearly supported by Tornado escorts
https://youtube.com/watch?v=WIF5hM7IOeI
https://youtube.com/watch?v=WIF5hM7IOeI
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VX, Certainly do remember the ADUX one shot chute. You are absolutly correct about how daft we were to try and use them over and over again. I was on Kevil DZ when we did the CDS trial form the J using ADUX. - we were desperatly short of SC15s for the sand pit. There was only one serving Despatcher left (I will not name him for fear of embarassing him) who could tie a draw tie with lightweight bungee. - as you know no Nora Batty's on ADUX. one guy proposed a mod to introduce them as I was signing the Form 5s to dispose of the rermaining stocks alongside the 60 fts. In the stick of 8 we had one that tore an arm off from the crown. There was no repair scheme in the topic 6!!!
Do you know if we ever adopted the US Low Cost chute which really was one shot and a fraction of the cost of an SC15 across all LODs. The videos being posted on Defence web show SC15s. Spoons gives a good commentry in one I watched earlier. I guess from the height they are dropping they don't need PADS
Do you know if we ever adopted the US Low Cost chute which really was one shot and a fraction of the cost of an SC15 across all LODs. The videos being posted on Defence web show SC15s. Spoons gives a good commentry in one I watched earlier. I guess from the height they are dropping they don't need PADS
I've no knowledge of the US low cost chute I'm afraid. I do though remember the first drop of the one tons on 26ft Ring slot from high altitude. A stick of 8 were dropped onto Larkhill impact area through cloud. We only saw 7 canopies and so having recoved them we went searching for number 8 driving a long wheel base Landrover over the target area trying not to get stuck in the bomb craters. It was fun avoiding all the bombs and shells lying on the surface and then occasionally getting out and standing on the target hulks to get a better view. We eventually found it in the area previously used for wire guided missiles firings (MT didn't like us for winding all that wire around the prop shafts). The two extra layers of EDM had done their job and whilst some of the jerry cans were crushed at least half still held their water ballast, OK for humanitarian relief.
A few years ago the Australians (IIRC) came up with a simple carton with top flaps which opened out as rotors, allowing it to autorotate slowly to the ground. A couple of cords, which crossed under the bottom of the box, went to the tips of the 'rotors' to take the flight loads.
This is a similar concept, but of much more complicated construction:
CopterBox Expendable Airdrop Delivery System for Ammo, Food, Meds, and More | DefenseReview.com (DR): An online tactical technology and military defense technology magazine with particular focus on the latest and greatest tactical firearms news (tact
This is a similar concept, but of much more complicated construction:
CopterBox Expendable Airdrop Delivery System for Ammo, Food, Meds, and More | DefenseReview.com (DR): An online tactical technology and military defense technology magazine with particular focus on the latest and greatest tactical firearms news (tact
VX275,
I seem to recall the reused 'one shot' ADUX had a tendency to stick to itself and thus be very reluctant to open. Anyone who has struggled to open a plastic waste bag will relate to this problem.
I seem to recall the reused 'one shot' ADUX had a tendency to stick to itself and thus be very reluctant to open. Anyone who has struggled to open a plastic waste bag will relate to this problem.
