F-16 low approach, Wadders.
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Waddington's current runways were put down between 1953 (when the airfield closed) and 1955. The airfield then received two Canberra Squadrons (21 & 27) - the Ops block and other supporting infrastructure went in at the same time as the runway was lengthened. The Vulcan OCU, 230, arrived at Waddington in May 1955 with the first Vulcan landing for contractor's trials work in March 1956. 230 OCU received its first Vulcans proper in January 1957 with 83 Sqn standing up in May 57. The final Canberra Sqn disbanded in June 57.
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Thread drift
Reminds me of a story from Cosford, where one end of the runway is near the main Wolverhampton - Shrewsbury train line. Bit of difference though, in that case the train line is on top of a earth bank which is what, 30 feet tall?
Back in the 80's someone was delivering a Vulcan for the museum, and we were out to watch it land. It went round a couple of times, and the story was that the pilot said he would take one last shot to which ATC responded, "You'll need to get a move on, the next train is due in 10 minutes...."
I've driven past Waddo, and Coningsby, and in my opinion anyone who decides to hang around there and then complain about the low flying aircraft are due everything they get.
It's like that airport where the undershoot is on the beach, people hang off the perimeter fence for a laugh as civvy airliners rev up for take off.
I really wonder about the future of the human race....
Reminds me of a story from Cosford, where one end of the runway is near the main Wolverhampton - Shrewsbury train line. Bit of difference though, in that case the train line is on top of a earth bank which is what, 30 feet tall?
Back in the 80's someone was delivering a Vulcan for the museum, and we were out to watch it land. It went round a couple of times, and the story was that the pilot said he would take one last shot to which ATC responded, "You'll need to get a move on, the next train is due in 10 minutes...."
I've driven past Waddo, and Coningsby, and in my opinion anyone who decides to hang around there and then complain about the low flying aircraft are due everything they get.
It's like that airport where the undershoot is on the beach, people hang off the perimeter fence for a laugh as civvy airliners rev up for take off. I really wonder about the future of the human race....
A quick look on Google Maps shows why the A15 was rerouted around Scampton as it would have gone clean through the runway but I wonder if a similar change was considered at the time at Waddo given the close proximity of the end of the new runway to the A15 (which even in 1950's must still have been quite busy) and the new large aircraft being located there.
This German pilot as the F16 driver beaten...
Even managed to hit the fence but by pure luck not the idiotic sunbather.
Lucky escape: Plane narrowly misses German sunbather
Lucky escape: Plane narrowly misses German sunbather
Surely the re-routing of Ermine Street between Lindum and Eboracum goes back earlier than that?
It seems that a couple of centurions were arguing about the best route; should the road follow the line of what later became the B1398 along the bottom of the Lincoln Edge, or should Ermine Street be improved. The discussions went on for some time; one centurion was worried about the danger of ambush from the low life who lived beneath the edge causing him to require more legions and cohorts every time he went north to duff up the Picts, whereas the other was more concerned at the exposed nature of the top of the Edge along Ermine Street.
This ruckus attracted the attention of Caesar....
"Why do you argue so, centurions?"
"Err, Hail Caesar. It is this road here in the land of the Britons"
"These things having been said however, notwithstanding the having been stated arguments, bloody sort it, will you!"
"My Lord, we are unable to agree"
"Best you do - or it's off to gladiator school for the pair of you!"
"Verily have we tried, O Caesar, but have failed to agree"
"Right. Hand me that ruler and thy strigil, in order that I can decide! And thy map of parchment"
"By your command, Sire..."
"Good", mumbled Caesar. "Right from here, the college which I shall name Bishop Grottestrix and fill with nubile young wenches, in order my legionnaires to please, to here - the port of Winteringham by the river. It shall follow this route; hear ye buggers that this shall be my command!"
Placing the ruler between the two points, he dragged the strigil across the parchment. But, in common with later generations of student pilots, he caught his thumb with the strigil, causing it to jump off the ruler and the route to have a bend in it....
Now, parchment being expensive and time being short, rather than send for a new map, he peered at the result and asked one of the centurions for the name of the nearest settlement to the diversion. "Sire, 'tis known in those parts as Scampton - inhabited by a strange tribe who worship the god Vulcan", he replied.
"Well, so be it. The barbarians will be avoided, in order for the legions to march quickly to defeat the Picts. Now, build the road as I command, or become lion fodder"
"As Caesar commands, so shall it be", chorused the centurions.
Which is why there's now a bend in the A15 at Scampton!
It seems that a couple of centurions were arguing about the best route; should the road follow the line of what later became the B1398 along the bottom of the Lincoln Edge, or should Ermine Street be improved. The discussions went on for some time; one centurion was worried about the danger of ambush from the low life who lived beneath the edge causing him to require more legions and cohorts every time he went north to duff up the Picts, whereas the other was more concerned at the exposed nature of the top of the Edge along Ermine Street.
This ruckus attracted the attention of Caesar....
"Why do you argue so, centurions?"
"Err, Hail Caesar. It is this road here in the land of the Britons"
"These things having been said however, notwithstanding the having been stated arguments, bloody sort it, will you!"
"My Lord, we are unable to agree"
"Best you do - or it's off to gladiator school for the pair of you!"
"Verily have we tried, O Caesar, but have failed to agree"
"Right. Hand me that ruler and thy strigil, in order that I can decide! And thy map of parchment"
"By your command, Sire..."
"Good", mumbled Caesar. "Right from here, the college which I shall name Bishop Grottestrix and fill with nubile young wenches, in order my legionnaires to please, to here - the port of Winteringham by the river. It shall follow this route; hear ye buggers that this shall be my command!"
Placing the ruler between the two points, he dragged the strigil across the parchment. But, in common with later generations of student pilots, he caught his thumb with the strigil, causing it to jump off the ruler and the route to have a bend in it....
Now, parchment being expensive and time being short, rather than send for a new map, he peered at the result and asked one of the centurions for the name of the nearest settlement to the diversion. "Sire, 'tis known in those parts as Scampton - inhabited by a strange tribe who worship the god Vulcan", he replied.
"Well, so be it. The barbarians will be avoided, in order for the legions to march quickly to defeat the Picts. Now, build the road as I command, or become lion fodder"
"As Caesar commands, so shall it be", chorused the centurions.
Which is why there's now a bend in the A15 at Scampton!
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Assuming that the military regulations try to emulate the CAA (CAP 168, derived from ICAO Annex 14, Volume I), the origin of the approach surface (1:50 slope) should be 60 metres before the threshold, and for a precision instument runway (ILS) be 150 metres either side of the runway centreline. Given that the road represents an obstacle 4.8 metres high, the road should be 240 metres from the start of the approach surface (and 300 from the threshold). So in practice the threshold should be displaced by 300 metres to provide the required clearance over the road.
Same applies to the take-off climb surface, except that it is only 90 metres either side of the centreline. To provide the clearance, a reduction of declared distances (of 300 metres)would be required. In any event the road would be repesented on the Type A chart as a 4.8m obstacle and taken into account during take-off performance planning.
The fence is also an obstacle.
Rail lines are considered a slightly taller obstacle to cater for any overhead power lines.
Mister B
Same applies to the take-off climb surface, except that it is only 90 metres either side of the centreline. To provide the clearance, a reduction of declared distances (of 300 metres)would be required. In any event the road would be repesented on the Type A chart as a 4.8m obstacle and taken into account during take-off performance planning.
The fence is also an obstacle.
Rail lines are considered a slightly taller obstacle to cater for any overhead power lines.
Mister B
Last edited by HTB; 7th Jul 2014 at 12:38.
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From the Highway Code (adjacent to a depiction of the lights most commonly used at railway crossings):
Flashing red lights
Alternately flashing red lights mean YOU MUST STOP
At level crossings, lifting bridges, airfields, fire stations, etc.
That takes care of traffic, and it would be reasonable to assume this also applies to pedestrians.
Mister B
Flashing red lights
Alternately flashing red lights mean YOU MUST STOP
At level crossings, lifting bridges, airfields, fire stations, etc.
That takes care of traffic, and it would be reasonable to assume this also applies to pedestrians.
Mister B
Last edited by HTB; 7th Jul 2014 at 12:39. Reason: c & p formatting
In English law I don't think its reasonable to assume anything. I think that a pedestrian passing a red light at traffic crossing then gets into Rail Act and by-laws etc and the railway is essentially private land, not sure that same regulations are in place for the public highway unless a local by- law is enacted.
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This applies to pedestrians at level crossings:
34
Railway level crossings. You MUST NOT cross or pass a stop line when the red lights show, (including a red pedestrian figure). Also do not cross if an alarm is sounding or the barriers are being lowered.The tone of the alarm may change if another train is approaching. If there are no lights, alarms or barriers, stop, look both ways and listen before crossing. A tactile surface comprising rounded bars running across the direction of pedestrian travel may be installed on the footpath approaching a level crossing to warn visually impaired people of its presence. The tactile surface should extend across the full width of the footway and should be located at an appropriate distance from the barrier or projected line of the barrier.
Law TSRGD, reg 52
So as the HC states that the flashing reds also apply to airfields, etc, it would seem logical to apply the same status as described above (at least the first sentence).
Mister B
34
Railway level crossings. You MUST NOT cross or pass a stop line when the red lights show, (including a red pedestrian figure). Also do not cross if an alarm is sounding or the barriers are being lowered.The tone of the alarm may change if another train is approaching. If there are no lights, alarms or barriers, stop, look both ways and listen before crossing. A tactile surface comprising rounded bars running across the direction of pedestrian travel may be installed on the footpath approaching a level crossing to warn visually impaired people of its presence. The tactile surface should extend across the full width of the footway and should be located at an appropriate distance from the barrier or projected line of the barrier.
Law TSRGD, reg 52
So as the HC states that the flashing reds also apply to airfields, etc, it would seem logical to apply the same status as described above (at least the first sentence).
Mister B
"Stylus" ?
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HTB - that road surface+4.5m/+4.8m rule applies to an open road to take account of traffic using the road. Waddo stops it's traffic so that +4.5/+4.8m rule doesnt apply and they can use the road height as it's reference.
The easiest way to visualise the approach surface is to look at the approach lights. The approach lights will usually be set to 'sit' on the bottom of the approach surface. You can see from that video that the spectators are standing and are taller than the approach lights - thus they are infringing the approach surface.
With Railway crossings there are Byelaws of Tresspass on Railway premises which they can use but with roads the offences relate to passing the red light. If the pedestrians are already past the red lights when they start flashing then they don't commit an offence.
However, they are technically committing offences of endangering aircraft safety by infringing the approach surface meaning that Police can use force (i.e. move them on) to prevent the offence.
Alternatively, as they are on the highway (legally defined as including verges and footpaths) they are required to obey the directions of a constable to proceed in a particular direction.
The easiest way to visualise the approach surface is to look at the approach lights. The approach lights will usually be set to 'sit' on the bottom of the approach surface. You can see from that video that the spectators are standing and are taller than the approach lights - thus they are infringing the approach surface.
With Railway crossings there are Byelaws of Tresspass on Railway premises which they can use but with roads the offences relate to passing the red light. If the pedestrians are already past the red lights when they start flashing then they don't commit an offence.
However, they are technically committing offences of endangering aircraft safety by infringing the approach surface meaning that Police can use force (i.e. move them on) to prevent the offence.
Alternatively, as they are on the highway (legally defined as including verges and footpaths) they are required to obey the directions of a constable to proceed in a particular direction.
No need for a displaced threshold, IMC traffic half a dot low on a 2.5 degree G/S crosses the road at 70 feet AGL. Likewise, visual traffic if aiming to touchdown on the numbers crosses the road above 20 feet AGL on a 2.5 degree approach. So, why not have a crossing restriction of 20 feet AGL for the crossing the A15? 
OAP
OAP