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Old 1st May 2014, 20:00   #41 (permalink)
 
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Crap management

After I left the RAF I was employed in a production management capacity in Falkirk. I well remember our Managing Director telling me any idiot can solve a problem by stopping production. The really good manager solves the problem at the same time as keeping things going.

Bearing in mind I was one of the early VGS instructors to convert to the Viking in 1984/5 and the Air Cadets have been flying them very satisfactorily since then with few "pauses" I am utterly stunned that we now have to ground the fleet because of paperwork issues!

ACW
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Old 1st May 2014, 20:26   #42 (permalink)
 
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I tell you what ACW, if you know that the paperwork assurance has flaws and then you fly minors - then there's a fatal accident - you probably won't have a flying organisation anymore, full stop.

Comparing "Production Management" to aviation involving under 18s reinforces the reasons for having someone like JM in to sort it out - it won't be popular but he and his CAMO are just what the VGS need before someone gets hurt. The VGS have to realise that 'a new sheriff is in town', there are new rules that the rest of military aviation have been dragged 'kicking and screaming' into and there is no hiding.

From some of the horror stories I'm hearing from my sources the 2FTS CAMO are doing exactly the right thing.

LJ
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Old 2nd May 2014, 08:58   #43 (permalink)

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Leon

You are exactly right. There were many folk in the VGS community who were sh!t-scared that JM might get the job. I wonder why.....

He is the right bloke - along with the Regional Gp Capts (who now have Admin & Discip C2 over the VGS personnel) - to drag the "Air" in Air Cadets safely into the 21st century......

....... even if he is an Air Defender ...........
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Old 2nd May 2014, 09:06   #44 (permalink)
 
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Air defender? QWI F4 ground attack and air defence, QWI Tornado ground attack and air defence and for a time Vulcan co-pilot, entitled to both pilot and navigator brevets.

The RAF never could decide what to do with him. So he told them, ask him, he'll tell you too.
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Old 2nd May 2014, 09:12   #45 (permalink)
 
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Leon,

I do not normally wish to get dragged into these kind of discussions.

However, perhaps you can explain to me how it is more likely that we will have an accident now after thirty years of safe operation just because a new broom has decided that the engineering paperwork needs to be improved. Your belief that this affair is all that different from real life shows how little you understand about life in industry.

ACW
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Old 2nd May 2014, 09:34   #46 (permalink)
 
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Well, at least if OC 2FTS wants to find out who the VGS instructor knocking his plans/priorities on PPRuNe is, he wont have to look further than the list of personal callsigns. Doh!
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Old 2nd May 2014, 10:04   #47 (permalink)
 
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ACW418, you're obviously not fully aware of the implications of the Haddon-Cave report and how, in recent years, military airworthiness has moved on. Leon Jabachjabicz hit the nail right on the head inasmuch that if there were to be an incident/accident the BOI would have picked glaring holes within the engineering support of the VGS. Hence, when minors are involved, the organisation risk a whole lot more than losing a few weeks flying... funding could be removed for good! This issue is NOT about the fact that the VGS has been operating satisfactorily for the previous thirty years; it's about compliance with the regulatory authority... the MAA.

Like it or not, the Viking and the Vigilant are military aeroplanes and they come under the same regulatory umbrella as any other front-line aeroplane. The parents of these youngsters expect professionalism within the VGS... and that's precisely what they're getting.

TCF
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Old 2nd May 2014, 10:50   #48 (permalink)
 
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Frustrated Fly.

If you check my details you will see that I retired several years ago. OC 2 FTS has little he can do about me.

Awaiting the black Omega.

ACW
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Old 2nd May 2014, 11:05   #49 (permalink)
 
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So what has been done so "badly" in the past? (HE cannot get me either!)

Last edited by Wander00; 2nd May 2014 at 12:21. Reason: typo
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Old 2nd May 2014, 11:38   #50 (permalink)
 
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Whilst I totally accept and agree with the issue of the need for compliance , I do take objection to some of the more subtle undertones hidden within some posts on this thread.
As has already been said, the parents of the young people who come to fly with us rightly expect that their child is fully protected by the policies, practices and professionalism of the ACO and its members.
The VGS safety record speaks for itself and is a clear indicator of the serious and professional manner in which we go about our business, so PLEASE, enough of the ACO/VGS character assasination.

NOC
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Old 2nd May 2014, 11:42   #51 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Many people will be amazed that cadets actually go flying at all. I cannot remember the last time I actually noticed or saw an RAF Air Cadet. I mean it must be fantastic for a kid to be taught to fly etc - they need to raise their profile a bit.
Really?! They're everywhere around here - packing your bags in Tescos, organising car parking at shows, helping out at marathons etc.

I think they're doing just fine - in rude health.
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Old 2nd May 2014, 11:57   #52 (permalink)

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So he told them, ask him, he'll tell you too.
In fact - you don't need to ask - he'll tell you anyway!!

dead_pan

How's this for raising the profile??

For the hard of thinking - it's Honorary Group Captain Sir Chris Hoy. (that's the chap with the scrambled egg)
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Old 2nd May 2014, 12:15   #53 (permalink)
 
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Paperwork!

Aviation paperwork is not just some admin nonsense. If the paperwork is wrong you can't fly the aircraft. Why not?

Well, the aim of the game is air safety and one of the pillars of air safety is airworthiness. Before you walk for an aircraft, especially with a young passenger, you must be certain that it is airworthy.

So you need to know everything that you need to know about the configuration of the aircraft and any limitations on its use; you need to know that its maintenance is correct and up to date and you need to know that any work on the aircraft has been carried out by correctly authorised personnel in accordance with the correct statements of work.

The only way you can make these judgements about the aircraft is by reference to the paperwork. If the paperwork is dodgy in any way you know nothing and if you fly it you're an idiot.

It's not a good idea to use the past to justify the present. If the present is demonstrably wrong it's still wrong whatever has happened in the past.


Rgds SOS
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Old 2nd May 2014, 12:27   #54 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SOSL
Aviation paperwork is not just some admin nonsense. If the paperwork is wrong you can't fly the aircraft. Why not?

Well, the aim of the game is air safety and one of the pillars of air safety is airworthiness. Before you walk for an aircraft, especially with a young passenger, you must be certain that it is airworthy.

So you need to know everything that you need to know about the configuration of the aircraft and any limitations on its use; you need to know that its maintenance is correct and up to date and you need to know that any work on the aircraft has been carried out by correctly authorised personnel in accordance with the correct statements of work.

The only way you can make these judgements about the aircraft is by reference to the paperwork. If the paperwork is dodgy in any way you know nothing and if you fly it you're an idiot.

It's not a good idea to use the past to justify the present. If the present is demonstrably wrong it's still wrong whatever has happened in the past.


Well said that man!
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Old 2nd May 2014, 12:57   #55 (permalink)
 
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So is the implication that for the last umpty ump years the Air Cadet Gliding Organisation has run on the basis of inadequate or dodgy maintenance s, or dodgy or inadequate maintenance records, and that their good safety record is merely a matter of good luck? If so, I am astounded.
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Old 2nd May 2014, 13:00   #56 (permalink)
 
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Did you just answer your own question with the answer you wanted to hear?
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Old 2nd May 2014, 13:38   #57 (permalink)
 
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SOSL,

I think you may need to do some research.

All Air Cadet gliders have been using RAF F700 systems for many years. In addition each VGS is Quality audited on its use of that system once a year by the RAF. Further there are two inspection visits each year, one by CFS and one by ACCGS, who check on flying and instructor standards and include aircraft paperwork as well.

As an ex RAF pilot I do not need a lecture on the importance of aircraft documentation nor suggestion of lack of professionalism in both flying and leadership standards.

ACW
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Old 2nd May 2014, 14:03   #58 (permalink)
 
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Good photo of my aircraft recce team with Sir Chris, the Sgt is now on his G2 training and has been accepted for his flying scholarship with Tayside
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Old 2nd May 2014, 15:02   #59 (permalink)
 
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ACW418, I don't think anyone is lecturing you. The DDH holder called a halt to flying operations and that you must respect that decision. The suggestion/rumour is that maintenance records/practices are at issue and, at least for the time being until everything is known, one shouldn't speculate as to what the causal reasons might actually be. He obviously made that decision for good reason.

The underlying swipes about the management team that are being posted into this thread are totally unwarranted. Furthermore, those particular folk are displaying a total lack of professionalism by sitting within their Ivory Tower's whilst wearing a mask of perceived immunity.

Quit the swiping and become constructive with your comments.

TCF
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Old 2nd May 2014, 15:12   #60 (permalink)
 
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Due respect to Sir Chris.
Should he be wearing VR (or VR(T) ) tags? - or has this now been discontinued?
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