Air Cadets grounded?
On a more positive note, I hear that Viggi No 3 is now airworthy. I'm also hearing that a Viking might be airworthy by the end of the month. If that is the case then I do believe the end of the tunnel may be swinging into view...
LJ
LJ
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Liability?
i have not followed this string closely because I stopped flying ATC cadets in Chipmunks many years ago but do have an interest because I now fly Gliders
Gliding clubs operate under a set of rules which will seem strange to jet operators but they have continued to provide safe machines for many years. My own club has experienced one fatal in thirty five years and that was non technical. Many of the Venture staff will be of that ilk. It would be all to easy to slip into gliding club mode
So far as I can tell the big problem at the base of all this delay has been the need to correctly address liability. Taking youngsters flying in what look like military aircraft had gradually become a serious worry for the top echelon and rightly so.
We owe an obvious duty of care to these kids and the service repute is very much at stake if we fail in that duty. I think I recall an awful stink when a Chippy hit the hangar at St Athan and a similar attitude when the boss of an midlands AEF stood a Chippy on its nose because the wind was obviously out of limits.
Picture the headlines if even a minor incident revealed an RAF engineering failure. One of the oft overlooked problems with outsourcing is that the parent organisation is grabbed by liability for the actions of an agent and the public will not accept "it was them guv"
We should applaud them at the top for having the wit to see the bigger long term risk and resist the temptation to see AEF/Gliding as an extension of civil gliding clubs
Gliding clubs operate under a set of rules which will seem strange to jet operators but they have continued to provide safe machines for many years. My own club has experienced one fatal in thirty five years and that was non technical. Many of the Venture staff will be of that ilk. It would be all to easy to slip into gliding club mode
So far as I can tell the big problem at the base of all this delay has been the need to correctly address liability. Taking youngsters flying in what look like military aircraft had gradually become a serious worry for the top echelon and rightly so.
We owe an obvious duty of care to these kids and the service repute is very much at stake if we fail in that duty. I think I recall an awful stink when a Chippy hit the hangar at St Athan and a similar attitude when the boss of an midlands AEF stood a Chippy on its nose because the wind was obviously out of limits.
Picture the headlines if even a minor incident revealed an RAF engineering failure. One of the oft overlooked problems with outsourcing is that the parent organisation is grabbed by liability for the actions of an agent and the public will not accept "it was them guv"
We should applaud them at the top for having the wit to see the bigger long term risk and resist the temptation to see AEF/Gliding as an extension of civil gliding clubs
Gentleman Aviator
Taking youngsters flying in what look like military aircraft
"I'm also hearing that a Viking might be airworthy by the end of the month."
Anyone know if they finally managed to get one airborne? My ATC contacts say not yet.
Anyone know if they finally managed to get one airborne? My ATC contacts say not yet.
I was amazed the other day to hear cadets from Fife talking about how much flying they have had of late: one, who only joined in April this year, was on his third Tutor flight (he said that his father was ATC staff which may have helped...) and another, who was 15, was enjoying his fifth trip at his fourth airfield (adding Cosford to Leuchars, Benson and Cranwell!). Every cadet I spoke to that day had flown in Tutors at least twice before, in stark contrast to the more local cadets who are usually first timers. Great that some cadets are getting so much, and it gives the lie to the doom merchants' claims that cadet flying is a thing of the past...
That's fantastic news Torque - I'm very glad to hear that some cadets are flying Tutors. But the reason I originally came on here was to discuss the Viking grounding. Towards the end of last month there was speculation that they were going to get some Vikings airworthy by early August.
Its now mid-August.
Does anyone know if there are any Vikings airworthy? Anyone?
Its now mid-August.
Does anyone know if there are any Vikings airworthy? Anyone?
Not yet.
Rumour is that they have a found quite a few issues in the first batch being done by the civvy gliding servicing company. I don't know the exact issues encountered but it does seem to vindicate OC 2FTS's decision - if a seperate and independent organisation is finding issues then I would offer that he was right all along?
Pontificating the 'ins and outs' of why, doesn't really do any good. I would suggest we leave them to it and wait for some good news.
I also hear that the Tutor AEFs have been taking up strain - great news, but the VGSs offer the capacity if the Cadet Organisation is to grow in accordance with the Government direction.
LJ
Rumour is that they have a found quite a few issues in the first batch being done by the civvy gliding servicing company. I don't know the exact issues encountered but it does seem to vindicate OC 2FTS's decision - if a seperate and independent organisation is finding issues then I would offer that he was right all along?
Pontificating the 'ins and outs' of why, doesn't really do any good. I would suggest we leave them to it and wait for some good news.
I also hear that the Tutor AEFs have been taking up strain - great news, but the VGSs offer the capacity if the Cadet Organisation is to grow in accordance with the Government direction.
LJ
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Result? No flying on the very days when ATC Cadets are available to go flying (unlike CCF Cadets or Annual Camps).
You couldn't make it up.
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Not only that, but the other flying activity (RAFGSA) was punted out of Wittering because of issues with two operating entities at the weekend.... 
yet nobody thought about the lack of ATC cover at W/Es.
Result? No flying on the very days when ATC Cadets are available to go flying (unlike CCF Cadets or Annual Camps).
Result? No flying on the very days when ATC Cadets are available to go flying (unlike CCF Cadets or Annual Camps).
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Four Counties was closed down and it's membership and fleet have either re-allocated to another GSA club or been sold off.
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Weren't the VGS at Syerston using one of Four Counties' K21's for instructor training whilst the Vikings are out?
That must be the biggest indignity - having originally been booted out of Syerston because of VGS politics only to have the VGS using their gliders because they're homeless.
7700
That must be the biggest indignity - having originally been booted out of Syerston because of VGS politics only to have the VGS using their gliders because they're homeless.
7700
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The RAFGSA is currently leasing (at cost) an ASK-21 to the Central Gliding School for instructor training and currency. The RAFGSA is also undertaking a number of air cadet gliding scholarships at RAFGSA clubs ( paid for by HQ Air Cadets - at cost) in order to help keep air cadet gliding viable and to help with the regeneration of VGS. Some VGS instructors have also joined the RAFGSA to maintain currency.
I was amazed the other day to hear cadets from Fife talking about how much flying they have had of late: one, who only joined in April this year, was on his third Tutor flight (he said that his father was ATC staff which may have helped...) and another, who was 15, was enjoying his fifth trip at his fourth airfield (adding Cosford to Leuchars, Benson and Cranwell!). Every cadet I spoke to that day had flown in Tutors at least twice before, in stark contrast to the more local cadets who are usually first timers. Great that some cadets are getting so much, and it gives the lie to the doom merchants' claims that cadet flying is a thing of the past...
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Very busy with Air Cadets at RAF Odiham at the moment and the kids appear to be getting plenty of trips in Chinooks, which is good practice for when they join the Army... 
On a different note, none of the VR(T) Officers that I met in the Mess while staying there for a couple of nights myself, appeared to be under the age of 50.
On a different note, none of the VR(T) Officers that I met in the Mess while staying there for a couple of nights myself, appeared to be under the age of 50.
I was kicked out of the VR(T) when I was 50! (after 36 years service as cadet and adult staff) My wingco decided I wasn't attending the squadron often enough, I was Wing Gliding Liaison Officer (went to the VGS most weekends) and worked shifts but he wouldn't listen.
It seemed to me then (late 90s) that the policy was get rid of the old lags like me and appoint younger ex-cadets as squadron officers.
It seemed to me then (late 90s) that the policy was get rid of the old lags like me and appoint younger ex-cadets as squadron officers.
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Not good on many levels... Clearly, in the intervening 25 years, the younger officers have now become the old lags. I'm not a fan of ex-cadets becoming adult staff in their old sub-unit/unit. Out of interest, why does the RAF no longer permit duel-commissioning i.e. RAuxAF/RAFVR(T) and the Army still does (a very good friend of mine is a Maj AR(Gp A) and a Lt AR(Gp B).