Voyager Plummets (Merged)

[airpolice]

I think that there is a certain amount of satisfaction that a CM has been held.

Justice seen to be done and all that.

[Lordflasheart]

Oxford Mail Feb 24th. Seems to be reporting on yesterday, ie. Thursday 23rd

Brize Norton pilot tells court martial he was 'devastated' to be blamed for nose dive (From Oxford Mail)

The trial continues ................

........................

[Brian W May]

Oxford Mail Feb 24th. Seems to be reporting on yesterday, ie. Thursday 23rd

Brize Norton pilot tells court martial he was 'devastated' to be blamed for nose dive (From Oxford Mail)

The trial continues ................

........................

Who the hell else would it be ? Good grief

[Pontius Navigator]

Brian, that is out of context but appears to be the whole basis for his defence. He recognizes that it was caused by his camera and it jamming the controls. He said at the time he was convinced that it was the aircraft, therefore his fault report was true as that is what he believed at the time.

[Just This Once...]

Indeed, as already covered this trial pivots on the opinion of the SI that the camera could only have been moved by a conscious act. As I understand it the SI has no proof of this beyond testing a theory in a simulator and not under the dynamic circumstances experienced during the flight. As to whether this theory, limited in testing as it was, is good enough to prove beyond reasonable doubt that this was a conscious act is beyond me.

Personally I have always struggled with the idea that in such challenging circumstances that any of us would have the presence of mind and clarity of thought not to mention the cause of the control restriction to the other crew member if/when discovered. I don't think I would have the capacity to think about a cover-up at that point and slip so gracefully into acting mode.

Still, we shall see what the jury thinks once presented with all the opinions out there.

[Just This Once...]

Really? Is a judge advocate siting on their own for this case?

[Lordflasheart]

Is a judge advocate sitting on their own for this case?

No, Judge Advocate Alan Large with a Board of 7 (the maximum) in this case.

It's all explained here and on the branch links provided -

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-mili...e#organisation

These include the Military Court Listings - except in this case you need to view the previous fortnight's list, which in their spirit of transparency, has been replaced by the current one, which regrettably doesn't mention this ongoing CM.

LFH

......................

[Just This Once...]

Ok, that is how I understood it having sat on one of these once or twice.

[Just This Once...]

Didn't see the pedant light on. A 'board' it may be but even the judges referred to us as the jury. Aside from the sentencing deliberations and the smaller number of people I would be hard pressed to think of a difference between a military and civilian court these days. Very different to the CMs in my early career. Undoubtedly better for it too.

[Pontius Navigator]

JTO, in that I am out of date, but unlike a random number of the general public the board is different. What is the actual composition?

[Just This Once...]

In my last one there were 6 officers and 1 WO with a spread of backgrounds and very tri-service. We dropped down to 6 total but not told the reason why. Having done a stint as a civilian juror the process was identical in all regards apart from the sentencing bit where I think the military court process is probably ahead of the civilian one. Well, at least from my seat!

[sycamore]

Anyone know what the fore and aft travel of the sidestick is...?

[The Old Fat One]

My point stands, a board is NOT a jury.

Having been on the inside of both a CM and a Criminal Trial, I would be hard pressed to tell the difference between a "board" in a CM and jury in Crown Court. I'm sure there are all sorts of legal differentiation's but to all intents and purposes they both fulfill a very similar function.

And juries/courts have differences anyhow. Scottish courts have juries of 15 and "not proven" verdicts (been there, done that). Northern Ireland have Diplock courts. All variations on a similar theme. Concur...pedant alert.

[Heathrow Harry]

But isn't the critical difference that a CM is comprosed of individuals who know something about the service whereas a civilian jury is specifically selected at random so they DON'T have any knowledge of the backgound?

[Kitty Hawk 1]

Oxford Mail:

He added that he would not use the camera during "busy periods" such as take-off and landings.

Well thank goodness for small mercies.

But isn't the critical difference that a CM is comprosed of individuals who know something about the service whereas a civilian jury is specifically selected at random so they DON'T have any knowledge of the backgound?

Very good point HH. And, they can probably all read and write and with luck understand English.

[superplum]

....and weren't passengers on the flight!

[Pontius Navigator]

Super plum, so?

[Heathrow Harry]

"Very good point HH. And, they can probably all read and write and with luck understand English."

I hope you are refering to the CM - I've been on a few civilian juries and those three skills were often missing ........................

[Brian W May]

Brian, that is out of context but appears to be the whole basis for his defence. He recognizes that it was caused by his camera and it jamming the controls. He said at the time he was convinced that it was the aircraft, therefore his fault report was true as that is what he believed at the time

Thanks PN.

Hmm, simply put, I wasn't there along with everyone else (presumably). I just have a bad feeling about this whole thing . . . .

We live in interesting times

[airsound]

A very nice Court Officer at Bulford tells me that closing speeches are happening today Monday, which could mean verdicts tomorrow.