HMS Coventry 1982
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HMS Coventry 1982
How close was Neil Thomas to the inbound raid to HMS Coventry when he was hauled off due "Birds Affirm" on 25th May 1982.
Had he called visual contact? And, if so, what was the range?
Naval Eye can you help?
Had he called visual contact? And, if so, what was the range?
Naval Eye can you help?
According to Sharkey's book, they were "almost at sidewinder release range at the attackers' 6 o'clock". I guess you would know what that distance is?
That is the only reference I can find at the moment.
Cheers
Andy
That is the only reference I can find at the moment.
Cheers
Andy
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From my copy of Falklands The Air War it says Neill Thomas (in XZ496) and Dave Smith (in XZ459) were vectored towards in incoming flight which consisted of four A-4B Skyhawks from Grupo 5. The Skyhawk flight split into two separate attack elements......Two were seen by Neill Thomas, who dived at the hostiles and got within three miles of them before being ordered to break off the interception. The book states these Skyhawks were heading for HMS Broadsword.
It then goes on to say the Sea Harrier CAP headed for the other pair, going for HMS Coventry but they were again ordered to break off. Broadsword had locked onto the targets but then Coventry broke the radar lock by coming between Broadsword and the Skyhawks. It does not give a distance between the Harriers and the Skyhawks for that engagement.
It then goes on to say the Sea Harrier CAP headed for the other pair, going for HMS Coventry but they were again ordered to break off. Broadsword had locked onto the targets but then Coventry broke the radar lock by coming between Broadsword and the Skyhawks. It does not give a distance between the Harriers and the Skyhawks for that engagement.
Suspicion breeds confidence
ES. From anecdotal evidence only I believe Captain Hart Dyke was mistaken in his belief that Sea Dart could have taken kill in such a space. I am detached from my reference material but I believe Hermes flight was visual with the incoming pair before being hauled off. You would know better than I and there are no official documents available given the heat of the moment. Coventry's track charts went with her. 3 miles is my best guess.
I contributed to the making of this account and believe it to be the most accurate and recent.
Please let me know what you think.
Kindest regards.
Seconds from Disaster: Sinking the Coventry (S06E08) - Video Dailymotion
I contributed to the making of this account and believe it to be the most accurate and recent.
Please let me know what you think.
Kindest regards.
Seconds from Disaster: Sinking the Coventry (S06E08) - Video Dailymotion
Last edited by Navaleye; 28th Nov 2013 at 22:48.
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500N said:
If the ship-board defences were to be deployed against the incoming aircraft then you would not want your own aircraft behind them in-case of misses/strays/accidental targetting.
Why were both aircraft told to break off the engagement ?
A very valid point. The aircraft being involved in the attacks on Coventry and Broadsword were A4s, and had been transiting at low level, and I believe that the SHARs were descending from the CAP to engage, so one could probably assume that they were catching them.
They did not reach the first pair before they entered the Sea Dart Zone, and were called off the second pair by Coventry, which from reading between the lines they were a lot closer to than the first.
This is a well know photo of the first pair, Carballo and Rinke, bearing in on Broadsword, taken by a very brave (or foolhardy) matelot.
A
They did not reach the first pair before they entered the Sea Dart Zone, and were called off the second pair by Coventry, which from reading between the lines they were a lot closer to than the first.
This is a well know photo of the first pair, Carballo and Rinke, bearing in on Broadsword, taken by a very brave (or foolhardy) matelot.
A
Last edited by AndySmith; 28th Nov 2013 at 23:01.
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Just had a read of the BoI.
It gives the timings of the two flights of Seahawks as not more than 90 secs apart.
Ref the Sea Harrier attack on the second pair it says the Harriers were 4-5 miles from their intercept point when they were told to break off when "Birds Affirm" was called.
Pardon my ignorance, being a civvie and all that. Would I be right in assuming "Birds Affirm" be a call to say that the Sea Dart was going to make the intercept as they had a radar lock?
It gives the timings of the two flights of Seahawks as not more than 90 secs apart.
Ref the Sea Harrier attack on the second pair it says the Harriers were 4-5 miles from their intercept point when they were told to break off when "Birds Affirm" was called.
Pardon my ignorance, being a civvie and all that. Would I be right in assuming "Birds Affirm" be a call to say that the Sea Dart was going to make the intercept as they had a radar lock?
Respect to both ends of that photo. You need a pair to fly through that erupting sea. No matter how ineffective the fire was.
Not sure would have a steady hand seeing that coming at me.
I wonder if Carballo and Rinke thought about useing their 20mm guns on the run in?
Better to have a beer with an enemy you could have killed, than drinking alone to forget and regret what you have done, after visiting their grave.
Both Carballo and Rinke survived the war.
Five or six years ago, I attended a Carballo`s conference (then already retired from the Air Force) and he commented that he tried to sink ships, but not to kill people, and he regretted every loss of life.
Five or six years ago, I attended a Carballo`s conference (then already retired from the Air Force) and he commented that he tried to sink ships, but not to kill people, and he regretted every loss of life.
That's a silly comment.
Better to win a war than lose it!
Better to win a war than lose it!
What I said was about the people who for the rest of their lives may have to live with seeing faces they needlessly killed, when they were always going to achieve their objective.
Would you have rather the Argentinian pilots used guns and killed everybody ?
I am thankful they did not and as quoted they are as well.
Suspicion breeds confidence
ES, Apologies for the delay. I can find no record of a Judy from Thomas or you. In the absence of this Coventry rightly remained in control of the engagement. I hope this answers your question.
Last edited by Navaleye; 29th Nov 2013 at 20:55.
Quote: I wonder if Carballo and Rinke thought about useing their 20mm guns on the run in?
AND
Possibly but bet now they glad they didn't.
AND
Possibly but bet now they glad they didn't.
That's how it is.