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HMS Coventry 1982

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HMS Coventry 1982

Old 29th Nov 2013, 21:01
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The A4 cannon was very prone to jamming, that is why most go the cannon strafes during the conflict were the ones done by Daggers. Mind you, one of the A4 pilots emptied his entire 200 rounds of cannon shells into Vince
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Old 29th Nov 2013, 21:30
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A series of understandable comments following Racedo's.

I agree with him, to an extent. Go back and read them again. He was not advocating any lack of aggression at the time. He was commenting on a possible current perspective that would have been shaped by events of the time and the intervening years. That's not too sophisticated a concept.

Luckily both parties to this series of battles were and still are relatively civilised and we can now drink together.
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Old 30th Nov 2013, 00:14
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I'm sorry, but what fatuous statements. If any of us ever go to war with attitude we are not fit to serve. It is not our place to give quarter in the shooting part of any war. It was his job to destroy the ship, without consideration of the enemy, in this case us. It was his duty to employ any means at his disposal to do harm to the enemy. Not to think about trying not to kill the people that were trying to kill him and that he was under orders to kill. His job was to sink the ship and that, potentially, included killing everyone on board.

That's how it is.
All correct but when war finished, he was asked and gives a response, then listen to the response.

He did as he was expected to do for his country, no different from what is expected of anybody in uniform.

Fact is that years later he happy that he hadn't used the cannon to kill lots more is not a sign of regret that he didn't do his job, its a sign that he glad he didn't kill more people.
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Old 30th Nov 2013, 07:52
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Ah, yes. I take your point. Sorry.
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Old 30th Nov 2013, 10:08
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I regret my memories of the event are rather hazy. I can, however, say with absolute certainty that I was never in visual contact with either element of the A4's. I was flying in 'fighting wing' on Neill's echelon at about 200 metres in a very similar intercept to the day before when I was with Andy Auld and we encountered and shot down 'Oro' section of three Mirage V's.
Correct me if I am wrong but I seem to remember the "Judy" was the pilot's affirmation that he had radar contact and was able to take over the intercept. In truth, most of the intercepts during the conflict were at ultra low level at very high speed and I really don't think we spent too much time looking at the radar.
For me the tragedy is that we easily had the performance to out accelerate and catch the A4's at low level. This was demonstrated convincingly when Dave Morgan and I bounced four A4's on the evening of 8 June.
If Neill had indeed been in visual contact we would without doubt have been able to close the distance and splash them.
ES
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Old 30th Nov 2013, 15:25
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Code words

Judy is/was have radar contact and am taking the intercept.
Tally is/was Have visual.
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Old 30th Nov 2013, 15:49
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This is a well know photo of the first pair, Carballo and Rinke, bearing in on Broadsword, taken by a very brave (or foolhardy) matelot.
Apart from aircraft looks just like a WW2 pic makes you wonder.
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Old 30th Nov 2013, 17:03
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Apart from aircraft looks just like a WW2 pic makes you wonder.
Given that at this particular moment the sea wolf system had gone offline, and they were inside effective sea dart range, it was pretty much WW2 stuff, just not quite as much of it as a typical WW2 destroyer would have.

On the second pair, of course it was Coventry herself that broke the lock of the sea wolf. A bit like an aircraft accident - rarely is it just down to one single fault but a chain of errors or mistakes that when put together create a disaster. The A4s probably could have been intercepted before reaching the ships, but they were called off. Then, the sea dart wouldn't lock onto the inbounds. Finally, when Broadswords Sea Wolf had locks on them, Coventry steered across the beam and broke the lock and left the pair to make a successful attack and put 3 of their four bombs in to her, which for once, despite the height of release, for once exploded (unlike the ones dropped onto Broadsword). Very unfortunate for Coventry and very fortunate for the two A4 pilots.
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Old 1st Dec 2013, 09:04
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They're making a film called "Destroyer" based upon COVENTRY and her loss. The skipper, Captain David Hart Dyke, will be played by Paul Bettany with the story based around Hart Dyke's own account.

On Captain Hart Dyke, take a look at the picture below and in particular the child in the middle:



The child in the centre is Miranda Hart, the comedian/actress who is the daughter of Hart Dyke. Now there's a good one for a Pub Quiz!

LJ
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Old 1st Dec 2013, 09:16
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Just to correct one point - "Judy" can be called for either RADAR or visual contact and means that the aircrew now accept responsibility for taking control of the intercept (I was briefed to use Judy on Hawks and JPs with no RADAR fitted or when my fighter jet's RADAR was U/S and we were Alpha Control).
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Old 1st Dec 2013, 11:23
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Actually, "Tally" means visual contact with enemy a/c, "Visual" means visual contact with friendly.
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Old 1st Dec 2013, 12:52
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And 'Blind, No Joy' means - 'Damn it, not again!'
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Old 1st Dec 2013, 13:06
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Didn't wartime nightfighter navs use the expression "my weapon is bent" if the radar did not work
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Old 1st Dec 2013, 13:38
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More modern than that, NATO uses "My gadget is bent."
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Old 11th Dec 2013, 16:33
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ES,

Your CAP station was east of Coventry covering the northern entrance to Falkland Sound which was a popular egress route for the Args. I doubt either you or Neil would have visual with either incoming flight. Best I can do.
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Old 11th Dec 2013, 17:10
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Originally Posted by FODPlod
More modern than that, NATO uses "My gadget is bent."
Nope.

It was a Wartime Codeword for the earliest of AI Radars.
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Old 12th Dec 2013, 14:52
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That's a heck of a photo.
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Old 24th Feb 2015, 11:20
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From Jets magazine

Just found this thread and thought the following might be of interest, from Jets magazine, Summer 2000 edition:


Neill Thomas had just taken off on CAP with Lt Dave Smith. The British had received intelligence from the mainland that Skyhawks had taken off from Rio Gallegos. "Generally these reports were quite reliable. They couldn't be specific about when the attack would arrive, but we knew something was on," says Thomas. "So when we were told, by Hermes, to go and have a look for a Pucara north of Port Stanley, I queried it - and afterwards stormed down to the ops room, pretty angry. But it was their call.
"We had a look, perhaps not as low as we should have done because I didn't think the Pucara was all that important at that stage, and then had to climb up and go off north-west towards our CAP position to the north of Falkland Sound.
"As we started to let down we got a call - it was Broadsword - that they'd picked up an aircraft coming out from the coast." The 'missile trap' picket had been working well: just that morning it had accounted for two 4 Grupo Skyhawks with Sea Dart, while the day before Andy Auld and Dave Smith of 800NAS had been vectored by Coventry onto a flight of Daggers and shot down three of them. Now the ships were about to come under attack by two flights of two A-4Bs of 5 Grupo, which had been sent out to find them. Thomas and Smith were still ten miles from their CAP area, heading north-west. The first two Skyhawks were already over the sea at low level, heading north at high speed on their bombing run.
"It was touch and go whether we'd get there in time; we just opened the taps and went for it," Thomas remembers. "But I still hadn't seen the A-4s when we were called off by Coventry because we were approaching their missile engagement zone."
But on board the Type 42 the Sea Dart's 909 radar was confused by echoes from the distant shore of Pebble Island and couldn't lock on to the Skyhawks. Broadsword's Sea Wolf saw two aircraft, but flying very close together, and that didn't look like a recognisable target. Coventry opened up with her 4.5-inch gun. While Neill and Smith in their Sea Harriers executed a wide 360 to keep clear of Coventry's Sea Darts, two 1000-lb bombs skipped over Broadsword, a third fell short, and the fourth ploughed through the flight deck without exploding and demolished the nose of the Lynx.
By the standards of that day, Broadsword was lucky. The next pair of Skyhawks was already committed to its run over the sea. Again Smith and Thomas were desperately searching for their small, fast, low-level targets when David Hart Dyke, Coventry's captain, again called on them to clear the MEZ. Sea Wolf was back on line, although Sea Dart still couldn't make out its targets. Then as Broadsword prepared to despatch the A-4s her guidance system was suddenly masked by Coventry crossing in front of the frigate: the missiles were blindfolded. "By the time we came in the second time, we were in exactly the same position," said Thomas. With the Sea Harriers in no position to stop him Primer Teniente Mariano Velasco put three bombs into the destroyer's starboard side. "As we started to turn I saw the bombs go off. It was dreadful." Nineteen men were killed, and within minutes the ship had turned over. Overhead Thomas and Smith could only watch.
"Inevitably, you start thinking about whether you did the right thing," says Thomas. "For years afterwards David Hart Dyke, whenever I saw him, would ask: 'Did I call you off too soon?' It was obviously very much on his mind. But tactically he was exactly right, unless he knew we were right in behind the aeroplane - and at that stage I hadn't seen it.
"If we had been there a few minutes earlier, it might have been different. It only took five minutes to look for that Pucara, but that might have been enough."
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Old 24th Feb 2015, 13:49
  #39 (permalink)  
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Both pairs came up A4 Alley over West Falkland. Having conferred with several folks present at the time, I believe the reports on this thread to be correct.

The correct procedure would have been engage with any weapons to hand and you don't want friendly aircraft in the area when their are Sea Dart in the air.

the limitations of Sea Dart were well known by both sides. The Ops Room team knew it was down to them.

Last edited by Navaleye; 24th Feb 2015 at 14:22.
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