BOI into the 2012 Tornado Collision over the Moray Firth
MoD will not release the report to the general public until after the Scottish Fatal Accident Investigation. Why not?
A disturbing turn of events. As the BoI typically only addresses the final act (i.e. ignores its remit) this makes it even more important that interested parties get to see what has been omitted, to better inform proper inquires.
Clearly, MoD is learning lessons from Nimrod, Chinook, Hercules etc, where in each case the BoI remains largely incomplete and the pertinent facts were uncovered by ex-MoD staff. This ethos could only prosper under an MAA that panders to its masters' demands.
MSOCS
Surely the same could be, and was, said about XV230? The likes of Thames Valley Police and the Provost Marshal were, I recall, awful keen to proceed against a couple of junior officers, but as soon as the evidence clearing them and pointing to a few Stars was submitted, they suddenly decided there wasn't sufficient evidence. I look forward to events developing!
Surely the same could be, and was, said about XV230? The likes of Thames Valley Police and the Provost Marshal were, I recall, awful keen to proceed against a couple of junior officers, but as soon as the evidence clearing them and pointing to a few Stars was submitted, they suddenly decided there wasn't sufficient evidence. I look forward to events developing!
That is true DV but it is an incredibly difficult Act to achieve a prosecution with. Service Law can have you in prison just for failing to check for accuracy for anything airworthiness related, even without an accident. The additional changes in Service Law in recent week makes it an offence for anyone to try and influence a police investigation in any way. Current star ranks do not have the level of protection enjoyed by their predecessors.
JTO
Thanks. I seem to recall this being discussed before and, from memory, the Air Force Act 1955 (and successors) included an offence of (for example) making false certification, carrying up to 2 years in gaol. Only, senior officers and ministers actually took the view that refusing an order to make false certification is a disciplinary offence, and remains so. So any attempted prosecution would be interesting, as exhibit A for the defence would be these ministerial rulings. I think that was one reason why TVP didn't want to know about XV230.
Thanks. I seem to recall this being discussed before and, from memory, the Air Force Act 1955 (and successors) included an offence of (for example) making false certification, carrying up to 2 years in gaol. Only, senior officers and ministers actually took the view that refusing an order to make false certification is a disciplinary offence, and remains so. So any attempted prosecution would be interesting, as exhibit A for the defence would be these ministerial rulings. I think that was one reason why TVP didn't want to know about XV230.
Corporate manslaughter has been illegal for around 30 years by one statue or another. To my knowledge the only successful prosecution was the one-man owner of the adventurous training company in the Lyme bay canoe tragedy.
There is zero political will to pass an enforceable law on this, in any of the major parties.
There is zero political will to pass an enforceable law on this, in any of the major parties.
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Fox3 WMB
The Corporate Manslaughter and Corporate Homicide Act 2007 is a landmark in law. For the first time, companies and organisations can be found guilty of corporate manslaughter as a result of serious management failures resulting in a gross breach of a duty of care. MoD fits the bill.
DV
The Corporate Manslaughter and Corporate Homicide Act 2007 is a landmark in law. For the first time, companies and organisations can be found guilty of corporate manslaughter as a result of serious management failures resulting in a gross breach of a duty of care. MoD fits the bill.
DV
DV
It's not law that matters, it's effective law.
Since the Act came in, there have been over 700 fatal injuries at work of workers, and about the same again to members of the public related to work, and 4 prosecutions. Two of these were definitely of small/one-owner firms, and I believe the other two were too.
I await prosecutions of large companies......
It's not law that matters, it's effective law.
Since the Act came in, there have been over 700 fatal injuries at work of workers, and about the same again to members of the public related to work, and 4 prosecutions. Two of these were definitely of small/one-owner firms, and I believe the other two were too.
I await prosecutions of large companies......
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So it has been one near miss every two weeks for the last 15 years for Tornado,
SNP reveal shocking near-collision aircraft stats | Scottish National Party
DV
SNP reveal shocking near-collision aircraft stats | Scottish National Party
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At least they didn't use the collision stats as well. 
Personally, I do recollect floating around North Rhine Westphalia in the 80s and whenever the 'fins' were about we tended to look out even more. Either that or we flew even lower and hoped that the bleedin' Harriers weren't having fun.
The perception was that GR1 cockpit toys drew eyes in.
Personally, I do recollect floating around North Rhine Westphalia in the 80s and whenever the 'fins' were about we tended to look out even more. Either that or we flew even lower and hoped that the bleedin' Harriers weren't having fun.
The perception was that GR1 cockpit toys drew eyes in.
Another completely useless set of SNP "statistics". Comparing Tornado airprox reports with 737, which takes off, transits and lands under continuous air traffic control in protected airspace. Comparing Harrier with Tornado - how many flying hours did each type fly during the period in question? Just two examples from that one piece.
SNP stats
I wonder what point they are really trying to make.
SNP stats
I wonder what point they are really trying to make.
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CM.
The 361 near misses in 15 years is not a statistic invented by the SNP, but a documented reality produced by the MoD. If Angus Robertson's comparisons help speed up the introduction of TCAS in Tornado, then good for him. It has, according to MoD, been under investigation/consideration/work in progress for 23 years, a period of time which included Haddon-Cave's "Gold period for airworthiness"; just like Nimrod and Chinook.
I would have thought that these must be "concered" conditions for crews to fly under, and in my opinion is worse than the Nimrod incident with regards to "duty of care". With Nimrod is was plain ignorance of what was going on with the fuel and hot air systems, with Tornado the constant delays to fit TCAS shows a total disregard for human life.
DV
The 361 near misses in 15 years is not a statistic invented by the SNP, but a documented reality produced by the MoD. If Angus Robertson's comparisons help speed up the introduction of TCAS in Tornado, then good for him. It has, according to MoD, been under investigation/consideration/work in progress for 23 years, a period of time which included Haddon-Cave's "Gold period for airworthiness"; just like Nimrod and Chinook.
I would have thought that these must be "concered" conditions for crews to fly under, and in my opinion is worse than the Nimrod incident with regards to "duty of care". With Nimrod is was plain ignorance of what was going on with the fuel and hot air systems, with Tornado the constant delays to fit TCAS shows a total disregard for human life.
DV
Dumb question - don't you have a radar for precisely this kind of thing. More importantly, if a 'mate' can get that close without you noticing, so can the enemy.....
Lack of TCAS in fast jets seems to be the thrust of some people and their agenda.