RAF VC10 - Great Memories
Latest info on that is 25th September around 1100am. Plans may change but early next year is a bit too far away, the last two VC10s don't have the hours left to reach that I guess.
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A sad day this coming Friday 
From BFBS News
The last two VC10s are being withdrawn from RAF service at the end of this month after more than 50 years of crucial work around the world.
One returned from the Falklands earlier this month. Both are currently based at RAF Brize Norton in Oxfordshire from where they will make a final sortie around the UK this Friday.
VC10s were used wherever British forces were in action, including in Yemen, the Falklands and the first Gulf War. They were also used to carry members of the Royal family and politicians overseas.
The aircraft is being replaced by Voyager, an aircraft based on a modified A330 holiday jet that is replacing the VC10 and Tristar.
The prototype of the VC10 plane, G-ARTA, made its maiden flight on June 29, 1962, and the VC10 went on to be used heavily by commercial airlines and the military.
At the time the RAF added it to its fleet, it was the heaviest and most powerful aircraft it had used and provided a new global transport capability.
The last of the planes were in service with 101 Squadron, based at RAF Brize Norton, Oxfordshire, pending their retirement.
Over the last half century the VC10 has been involved in many major international crises.
It was used to bring British troops back from Aden, Yemen, in 1967 - the biggest operation of its type since the Berlin airlift.
In February 1979, RAF VC10s and C-130s flew 650 men, women and children out of Iran in four days - moving the Daily Express to comment: "RAF ... the airline you can trust."
In the Falklands War in 1982, the first task of the VC10 was to fly the islands' governor, Rex Hunt, and the 61 Marines of the Naval Party 8901 from the airport of Montevideo in neutral Uruguay.
The VC10 was soon involved in the evacuation of the seriously wounded from Montevideo. Two VC10s were painted with the international markings of the Red Cross and permitted to carry 65 wounded. The aircraft carried more than 400 casualties by this route, which involved a 24-hour flight with a refuelling stop at Ascension Island.
During the first Gulf War, VC10s flew air-to-air refuelling missions and more than 5,000 hours of supply and medical duties.
The VC10 has also been involved in operations in Afghanistan, refuelling British and US aircraft.
The first royal flight by an RAF VC10 was the journey to Australia and back by the Prince of Wales, Harold Wilson and Ted Heath in 1967 for the memorial service for the Australian premier Harold Holt, who drowned while swimming.
The flight from London to Melbourne took 21 hours, 46 minutes including two stops at Muharraq in Bahrain and Gan in the Indian Ocean. Civil aircraft took 36 hours at that time to complete the journey.
The VC10 was used for the Queen's bicentennial tour of America. On July 3, 1976, the Queen and the Duke of Edinburgh embarked on a tour of the USA with the first stop in Bermuda.
Prime minister Tony Blair was on board the last VC10 to complete an approach to Kai Tak airport in Hong Kong on June 29, 1997. He was attending the handover ceremonies of the British colony to China.
Politicians have had varying opinions of the VC10 - Margaret Thatcher always insisted on using the aircraft, but John Major hated its outdated air-conditioning system, preferring Concorde or a Boeing 747.
In 1998 a set of divan sofa-beds were added to a VC10 used by Mr Blair at a cost of £50,000 so the premier, his wife and aides could sleep during flights.
The VC10 was a great favourite of Mrs Thatcher. Her office on board was curtained off for extra privacy and she had her own steward to pour drinks, whiskey or mineral water, with a glass of red wine with meals.
Denis Thatcher was also often on board. He enjoyed a quiet gin and tonic and sometimes went to the back of the plane to talk to the "reptiles" - his nickname for journalists.
On August 1, 1990, Mrs Thatcher was presented with a log book to commemorate her 1,000 hours of flying on a VC10.
Freed hostages John McCarthy and Terry Waite flew home by VC10 in 1991 after years of being held in Beirut.
One returned from the Falklands earlier this month. Both are currently based at RAF Brize Norton in Oxfordshire from where they will make a final sortie around the UK this Friday.
VC10s were used wherever British forces were in action, including in Yemen, the Falklands and the first Gulf War. They were also used to carry members of the Royal family and politicians overseas.
The aircraft is being replaced by Voyager, an aircraft based on a modified A330 holiday jet that is replacing the VC10 and Tristar.
The prototype of the VC10 plane, G-ARTA, made its maiden flight on June 29, 1962, and the VC10 went on to be used heavily by commercial airlines and the military.
At the time the RAF added it to its fleet, it was the heaviest and most powerful aircraft it had used and provided a new global transport capability.
The last of the planes were in service with 101 Squadron, based at RAF Brize Norton, Oxfordshire, pending their retirement.
Over the last half century the VC10 has been involved in many major international crises.
It was used to bring British troops back from Aden, Yemen, in 1967 - the biggest operation of its type since the Berlin airlift.
In February 1979, RAF VC10s and C-130s flew 650 men, women and children out of Iran in four days - moving the Daily Express to comment: "RAF ... the airline you can trust."
In the Falklands War in 1982, the first task of the VC10 was to fly the islands' governor, Rex Hunt, and the 61 Marines of the Naval Party 8901 from the airport of Montevideo in neutral Uruguay.
The VC10 was soon involved in the evacuation of the seriously wounded from Montevideo. Two VC10s were painted with the international markings of the Red Cross and permitted to carry 65 wounded. The aircraft carried more than 400 casualties by this route, which involved a 24-hour flight with a refuelling stop at Ascension Island.
During the first Gulf War, VC10s flew air-to-air refuelling missions and more than 5,000 hours of supply and medical duties.
The VC10 has also been involved in operations in Afghanistan, refuelling British and US aircraft.
The first royal flight by an RAF VC10 was the journey to Australia and back by the Prince of Wales, Harold Wilson and Ted Heath in 1967 for the memorial service for the Australian premier Harold Holt, who drowned while swimming.
The flight from London to Melbourne took 21 hours, 46 minutes including two stops at Muharraq in Bahrain and Gan in the Indian Ocean. Civil aircraft took 36 hours at that time to complete the journey.
The VC10 was used for the Queen's bicentennial tour of America. On July 3, 1976, the Queen and the Duke of Edinburgh embarked on a tour of the USA with the first stop in Bermuda.
Prime minister Tony Blair was on board the last VC10 to complete an approach to Kai Tak airport in Hong Kong on June 29, 1997. He was attending the handover ceremonies of the British colony to China.
Politicians have had varying opinions of the VC10 - Margaret Thatcher always insisted on using the aircraft, but John Major hated its outdated air-conditioning system, preferring Concorde or a Boeing 747.
In 1998 a set of divan sofa-beds were added to a VC10 used by Mr Blair at a cost of £50,000 so the premier, his wife and aides could sleep during flights.
The VC10 was a great favourite of Mrs Thatcher. Her office on board was curtained off for extra privacy and she had her own steward to pour drinks, whiskey or mineral water, with a glass of red wine with meals.
Denis Thatcher was also often on board. He enjoyed a quiet gin and tonic and sometimes went to the back of the plane to talk to the "reptiles" - his nickname for journalists.
On August 1, 1990, Mrs Thatcher was presented with a log book to commemorate her 1,000 hours of flying on a VC10.
Freed hostages John McCarthy and Terry Waite flew home by VC10 in 1991 after years of being held in Beirut.
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"Prime minister Tony Blair was on board the last VC10 to complete an approach to Kai Tak airport in Hong Kong on June 29, 1997. He was attending the handover ceremonies of the British colony to China."
...I was on this flight and witnessed the now famous Tony Blair shirt story.
...I was on this flight and witnessed the now famous Tony Blair shirt story.
Last edited by Spit the Dog; 18th Sep 2013 at 15:49.
So was I! Mrs Blair was on the flight deck on departure, with thunderstorms all around us, I was telling her that in conditions like this we can get "St Elmo's Fire" around the windows and on the probe, in ten seconds it duly appeared.
"The VC10 was used for the Queen's bicentennial tour of America. On July 3, 1976, the Queen and the Duke of Edinburgh embarked on a tour of the USA with the first stop in Bermuda."
True enough - and once HM had embarked at Heathrow, the crew requested Start and ATC clearances, when it emerged that BA Ops had failed to file the Flight Plan submitted. The Captain then gently but very firmly insisted that there was now no question of a delayed departure, and that he would start and taxi towards the runway in use for takeoff, by which time he expected a departure clearance of some kind to be available. He did, and one was - and an apology from somebody very senior in BA was subsequently received at MOD(Air).
True enough - and once HM had embarked at Heathrow, the crew requested Start and ATC clearances, when it emerged that BA Ops had failed to file the Flight Plan submitted. The Captain then gently but very firmly insisted that there was now no question of a delayed departure, and that he would start and taxi towards the runway in use for takeoff, by which time he expected a departure clearance of some kind to be available. He did, and one was - and an apology from somebody very senior in BA was subsequently received at MOD(Air).
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Someone on the Flypast forums came up with a fascinating suggestion, perhaps as BOB failed to get to Cosford due to the runway issues, maybe one of the Sims could.
The more you think about it, with a glass door or the like it could be visible for the public to peer in and see what the cockpit was like, possibly with an inflight view being ran on a loop on the viewing screens, or even have it set up and running, with possible usage being made of it by the training side of the place as well.
After all as a sim it shows another facet of the RAF in peace and war, ideal and a novel display, if not unique in a Museum, also if it was static, the way Cosford is with the raised walkway, it should be possible to display it level with the walkway on legs, thus actually taking up little of the floor space available.
..
The more you think about it, with a glass door or the like it could be visible for the public to peer in and see what the cockpit was like, possibly with an inflight view being ran on a loop on the viewing screens, or even have it set up and running, with possible usage being made of it by the training side of the place as well.
After all as a sim it shows another facet of the RAF in peace and war, ideal and a novel display, if not unique in a Museum, also if it was static, the way Cosford is with the raised walkway, it should be possible to display it level with the walkway on legs, thus actually taking up little of the floor space available.
..
Last edited by NutLoose; 18th Sep 2013 at 18:23.
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Air Conditioning
Quote:
Margaret Thatcher always insisted on using the aircraft, but John Major hated its outdated air-conditioning system, preferring Concorde or a Boeing 747.
Outdated? Absolute rubbish. How many airliners have got frig packs for rapid cooling in the Tropics? And how many can produce snow if the Eng. turns on the humidifiers at the same time?
Never did rate Mr Major.
Margaret Thatcher always insisted on using the aircraft, but John Major hated its outdated air-conditioning system, preferring Concorde or a Boeing 747.
Outdated? Absolute rubbish. How many airliners have got frig packs for rapid cooling in the Tropics? And how many can produce snow if the Eng. turns on the humidifiers at the same time?
Never did rate Mr Major.
I think it was due to the fact the Freon was always leaking and after a few days down route, the cooling qualities started to reduce. He got a bit hot once in Saudi, I gather.
Last edited by Dan Winterland; 19th Sep 2013 at 01:17.
Quote from post#134 "The first royal flight by an RAF VC10 was the journey to Australia and back by the Prince of Wales, Harold Wilson and Ted Heath in 1967 for the memorial service for the Australian premier Harold Holt, who drowned while swimming.
The flight from London to Melbourne took 21 hours, 46 minutes including two stops at Muharraq in Bahrain and Gan in the Indian Ocean. Civil aircraft took 36 hours at that time to complete the journey." Unquote
As I posted in #3 in this thread...this is the flight I was the F/E crew from Gan to Melbourne and vv...... but it doesn't mention that we stopped in Perth, for a couple of hours, on the way back. This was simply to introduce Prince Charles to Western Australians.
Harold Wilson was outraged as he was being upstaged...I heard him mutter obscenities whilst we waited for the Prince to return.
Later, during flight, my Captain sent an invite to the Prime Minister to visit the cockpit. His response was.....you look after the A/C and I'll look after Great Britain!
At one point I had to descend thru' the galley hatch to the electronic bay for something. He glowered at me and said "What's wrong!" I said I reset a computer module...I wish I'd said "I'll look after the A/C, which is doing well and you look after the country...which isn't!" but at that time...I thought I had a career...
The flight from London to Melbourne took 21 hours, 46 minutes including two stops at Muharraq in Bahrain and Gan in the Indian Ocean. Civil aircraft took 36 hours at that time to complete the journey." Unquote
As I posted in #3 in this thread...this is the flight I was the F/E crew from Gan to Melbourne and vv...... but it doesn't mention that we stopped in Perth, for a couple of hours, on the way back. This was simply to introduce Prince Charles to Western Australians.
Harold Wilson was outraged as he was being upstaged...I heard him mutter obscenities whilst we waited for the Prince to return.
Later, during flight, my Captain sent an invite to the Prime Minister to visit the cockpit. His response was.....you look after the A/C and I'll look after Great Britain!
At one point I had to descend thru' the galley hatch to the electronic bay for something. He glowered at me and said "What's wrong!" I said I reset a computer module...I wish I'd said "I'll look after the A/C, which is doing well and you look after the country...which isn't!" but at that time...I thought I had a career...
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"In February 1979, RAF VC10s and C-130s flew 650 men, women and children out of Iran in four days - moving the Daily Express to comment: "RAF ... the airline you can trust.""
As a point of order 4 x C-130's landed in Teheran on 31 Jan '79 evacuating some 500 persons between them to Bahrain. The 10's went in later.
As a point of order 4 x C-130's landed in Teheran on 31 Jan '79 evacuating some 500 persons between them to Bahrain. The 10's went in later.
Last edited by Motleycallsign; 19th Sep 2013 at 09:50.
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XV109 Leuchars to Brize
There is a lot of mis-information being given here on the XV109 incident in November 1988. To the best of my knowledge none of the people making comments were a part of the crew - I was. As the pilot sitting in the right hand seat of that aeroplane on that night I can tell you that most of what you read on this thread about that night is factually incorrect.
For example, there was no tyre damage evident at Gardermoen.
The Captain and FE chose NOT to infom the rest of the crew about the full story at Leuchars - after they had bullied the unfortunate GE into declaring it "fit for one flight". We were told by the Captain that the GE was "perfectly happy" - a straight lie, as we found out later.
There was no hydraulic failure as such - just the fact that the no1 and no2 engines were starved of fuel and both flamed out, thereby indirectly causing a loss of 1 hydraulic system.
No debris went down the port engines - they quit because they had no fuel!
The FE did NOT pump fuel from the right hand side to the left or from the no2 tank into the no1. The facts are that the fuel lines were so badly damaged that he/we had no control of the fuel system and all the fuel from the left hand side was lost through the damaged lines. The fuel in the right hand side was unaffected and all 15,000lb was available to run the no3 and no4 engines ( we "just" lost all 15,000lb of the fuel from the left because we had no way of stopping it running right out of the severed fuel lines.
There is no doubt that we as a crew made some mistakes on the pre-flight decision making (some of that because some of us were deliberately excluded from the decision making process). However, whilst we may have ****ed it up on the ground, we actually did a bloody good job of getting a badly broken aeroplane back on the ground. The double asymmetric approach was performed "by the book" - I believe it was the only time that an RAF VC10 did one for real and was a testament to the training we received from the OCU and Sqn training crews. I think BOAC had one double engine failure though.
The inquiry pinned the blame fairly, squarely and accurately on the shoulders of the Captain and FE. Myself, the Nav and the GE were given bollockings for not standing up to the two arseholes who misled us - a lesson that has stayed with me for the remainder of my career.
My other post on this matter can be found here: http://www.pprune.org/military-aircr...9-today-2.html
For example, there was no tyre damage evident at Gardermoen.
The Captain and FE chose NOT to infom the rest of the crew about the full story at Leuchars - after they had bullied the unfortunate GE into declaring it "fit for one flight". We were told by the Captain that the GE was "perfectly happy" - a straight lie, as we found out later.
There was no hydraulic failure as such - just the fact that the no1 and no2 engines were starved of fuel and both flamed out, thereby indirectly causing a loss of 1 hydraulic system.
No debris went down the port engines - they quit because they had no fuel!
The FE did NOT pump fuel from the right hand side to the left or from the no2 tank into the no1. The facts are that the fuel lines were so badly damaged that he/we had no control of the fuel system and all the fuel from the left hand side was lost through the damaged lines. The fuel in the right hand side was unaffected and all 15,000lb was available to run the no3 and no4 engines ( we "just" lost all 15,000lb of the fuel from the left because we had no way of stopping it running right out of the severed fuel lines.
There is no doubt that we as a crew made some mistakes on the pre-flight decision making (some of that because some of us were deliberately excluded from the decision making process). However, whilst we may have ****ed it up on the ground, we actually did a bloody good job of getting a badly broken aeroplane back on the ground. The double asymmetric approach was performed "by the book" - I believe it was the only time that an RAF VC10 did one for real and was a testament to the training we received from the OCU and Sqn training crews. I think BOAC had one double engine failure though.
The inquiry pinned the blame fairly, squarely and accurately on the shoulders of the Captain and FE. Myself, the Nav and the GE were given bollockings for not standing up to the two arseholes who misled us - a lesson that has stayed with me for the remainder of my career.
My other post on this matter can be found here: http://www.pprune.org/military-aircr...9-today-2.html
Last edited by moggiee; 19th Sep 2013 at 17:17.
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Myself, the Nav and the GE were given bollocking for not standing up to the two arseholes who misled us - a lesson that has stayed with me for the remainder of my career.
I doubt there's anyone hasn't "gone along", regretted it and learned from it to benefit later. You had the misfortune to do it rather publicly, that's all.
Survive and learn.
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So have the Top Brass attempted to contact/invite former VC10 Air and Ground Crew to attend, if they can, to mark the passing of the old ladies this coming Friday ?
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There is a small "open day" last opportunity for the public to see the Ten, Tristar and Original Herks together before they retire, meet and greet etc, look around them, but no flying.... but as far as ex Crews and Engineers I pass, I was tempted to apply for a place on the day there is, but thought it would be better for those that may never get a chance to see them at all to go as i've had the opportunities they never got, after all they paid for them. So I did not apply, shame really I will miss it, but from some of the post i have read a lot of people were taking their kids etc, so sounds like a good PR deal.
For details see
http://www.pprune.org/aviation-histo...09-2013-a.html
For details see
http://www.pprune.org/aviation-histo...09-2013-a.html
Last edited by NutLoose; 19th Sep 2013 at 15:52.
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If memory serves me right, prototypes had 4, production models just 2 - it didn't need any more than that.
It was certainly a good learning experience! However, like many such events, facts do appear to have mutated during re-telling 
Nor is it fact - the tyre was absolutely fine at Gardemoen and appears to have been damaged during takeoff there or landing at Leuchars. However, both of those events appeared to have been perfectly normal.
Och! Don't fret about it. They did you a favour in the long run. It's part of "growing up" in a crew environment.
I doubt there's anyone hasn't "gone along", regretted it and learned from it to benefit later. You had the misfortune to do it rather publicly, that's all.
Survive and learn.
I doubt there's anyone hasn't "gone along", regretted it and learned from it to benefit later. You had the misfortune to do it rather publicly, that's all.
Survive and learn.
Nor is it fact - the tyre was absolutely fine at Gardemoen and appears to have been damaged during takeoff there or landing at Leuchars. However, both of those events appeared to have been perfectly normal.
Last edited by moggiee; 19th Sep 2013 at 17:22.
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The BOAC double engine failure was on take off from JFK - one went bang and took t'other out. Max all up weight and an arse puckering ride round Jamaica Bay before a safe landing. (See post 358 on Misc. Forums - PPRuNe Forums).
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Posted on the Flypast forum.
Not seen this posted anywhere else, so apologies if it is.Taken from the RAFA youth page on facebook.
Below are the details of the FINAL VC10 sortie/flypasts on Friday 20th September (TOMORROW)
The last two VC10 aircraft (ZA147 and ZA150) will conduct their final air-to-air refuelling sortie, then diverge to carry out fly pasts of various locations around the UK.The aircraft are expected to fly according to the following schedule (all timings are local):
ZA147 –
12.20 – Newcastle
12.40 – Warton
13.05 – RAF Coningsby (VC10 will be accompanied by a GR4)
13.15 – RAF Marham (VC10 will be accompanied by a GR4)
13.35 – Birmingham
ZA150 –
12.35 – RAF Lossiemouth (VC10 will be accompanied by a GR4)
12.55 - RAF Leuchars (VC10 will be accompanied by a Typhoon)
13.15 – Prestwick
Both aircraft are expected to return to Brize Norton by 13.45 for a final fly past at 14.00.
All times are local, and subject to change, based on the conditions of the day and aircraft availability.
Below are the details of the FINAL VC10 sortie/flypasts on Friday 20th September (TOMORROW)
The last two VC10 aircraft (ZA147 and ZA150) will conduct their final air-to-air refuelling sortie, then diverge to carry out fly pasts of various locations around the UK.The aircraft are expected to fly according to the following schedule (all timings are local):
ZA147 –
12.20 – Newcastle
12.40 – Warton
13.05 – RAF Coningsby (VC10 will be accompanied by a GR4)
13.15 – RAF Marham (VC10 will be accompanied by a GR4)
13.35 – Birmingham
ZA150 –
12.35 – RAF Lossiemouth (VC10 will be accompanied by a GR4)
12.55 - RAF Leuchars (VC10 will be accompanied by a Typhoon)
13.15 – Prestwick
Both aircraft are expected to return to Brize Norton by 13.45 for a final fly past at 14.00.
All times are local, and subject to change, based on the conditions of the day and aircraft availability.