V-22 Osprey Air Refuel F-35Bs for CVFs? + other stuff

[US Herk]

Originally Posted by SpazSinbad

In my world according to Garp ARF was AirReFuel in an A4G (nun of yur poncy hyphens) back in the olden tymes. I guess the USMC invent lots of acronyms.

Good grief - there are a plethora of acronyms and names for various ground refueling:

FARP - Forward Area Refueling Point
FARRP - Forward Area Refueling and Rearming Point
ALARP - AirLand Area Refueling Point
Fat Cow - Any big plane ground refueling another plane
Little Willie - Air dropped bladder-based refueling point
RGR - Rapid Ground Refueling
Hot Gas - From blivets

And many more I've forgotten...

For inflight refueling it's been bounced around several iterations based on branch, nationality, and even just change for the sake of change:

IFR - Inflight Refueling
AAR - Air to Air Refueling
AR - Aerial Refueling
ARF - Air ReFueling

And let's not forget the boom receptacle:

UARRSI - Universal Air Refueling Receptacle Slipway Installation (say that three times quickly!)

[West Coast]

Beag's

See you're still not over getting waxed by that female USMC Lt yet.

[LowObservable]

Exactly, VdG - give away 17000 pounds from the V-22 and it is going to get real quiet real soon.

You could presumably give away most of that fuel in a recovery-type refuelling over the ship, but that doesn't extend your range all that much. And the V-22's payload-range relationship is better than a helicopter but distinctly un-exciting compared to a fixed-wing.

And 16 F-35B loads of fuel is (according to my calculator) 54,000 pounds of gas for each of those four Ospreys supplying the forward base. Good luck with that.

[US Herk]

Originally Posted by Lowobsevable

You could presumably give away most of that fuel in a recovery-type refuelling over the ship, but that doesn't extend your range all that much. And the V-22's payload-range relationship is better than a helicopter but distinctly un-exciting compared to a fixed-wing.

Yes, but it's hard to store a KC-130 onboard a ship, whereas a CV22 folds up and goes below deck.

[Courtney Mil]

Naa! You can have anything on a carrier these days.

C-130



C-17



B-52



One day, someone may even put a F-35B on one. Soz, no picture of that one yet.

[CoffmanStarter]

Courtney ... there were stranger things that landed on carriers in the early 1940's



Coff.

[Courtney Mil]

I thought that was classified. Apparently the landing didn't go too well. It seems some idiot had designed it as a STOVL variant with a LIFT FAN! Remember the thing the Russians tried? Also it was single-seat! Unbelievably basic.

[West Coast]

Courtney
Believe that should have been addressed to US herk, but good pics. LastnI heard a number of years ago, that specific Herk was still plugging away with VMGR-352 at Miramar. I'd say the taxpayers got their money's worth out of it.

[Courtney Mil]

West Coast,

For an aircraft pressed into service for a job that I'm sure was never even a glint in her creator's eye, she made a very fine tanker. Saved my bacon more then once in some nasty South Atlantic weather.

[Just This Once...]

Any landing with S-foils locked into attack position was a good landing. The guy in 1942 did well but after the campaign group the MAA are still rushing out new RAs about it...

[SpazSinbad]

Crab Golf Course Boat Incentive

In the continuing spirit of this thread hijack and the earlier reference on another thread to F-35Cs for USAF with perhaps CRABs 'going to the boat' as the USN put it so well, here is an incentive pic for said CRABs with an offer for FREE green golf club membership and an LSO scoring method - just for them:

EAGLE = _OK_ Perfect pass
BIRDIE = OK Reasonable deviations with good corrections
PAR = (OK) Fair. Reasonable deviations
LtJg = No-grade. Below average but safe pass
CRABfat = Cut. Unsafe, gross deviations inside waveoff window
Swing & a Miss = Bolter. Free Drinks Pass for some 'Dog Bolter' at some random pub in the MidLands

[West Coast]

That's a helluva water hazard.

[CoffmanStarter]

We've had that pic on PPRuNe CapCom

[SpazSinbad]

MV-22B OSPREY SHORT TAKEOFF AND MINIMUM RUN-ON LANDING TESTS ABOARD LHD CLASS SHIPS

Virginia T. Mitchell & William P. Geyer | V-22 Ship Suitability Engineer
Naval Air Warfare Center Aircraft Division, Patuxent River, Maryland

"ABSTRACT

This paper describes recent ship suitability tests conducted by the V-22 Test Team in March 2008 aboard USS IWO JIMA (LHD 7). This testing encompassed expanding the Short Takeoff (STO) envelopes and developing a new landing technique termed Minimum Run-on Landing (MROL) to extend V-22 shipboard capability beyond Vertical Takeoff and Landing (VTOL) gross weights (GW). The objectives included: initial development of the MROL technique in the shipboard environment; expansion of STO and MROL GW envelopes to 58,000 lb (lb), 10% above the maximum VTOL GW;...

...CONCLUDING REMARKS
The STO GW envelope was expanded, although not to the fullest extent of the aircraft capability due to insufficient time at-sea. MROL demonstrated to be a revolutionary and safe way to land aboard ship at GWs heavier than VTOL capability and will continue to be developed and tested...."

http://www.vtol.org/f65_bestPapers/testAndEvaluation.pdf (1.2Mb)

This PDF was available at URL above but no longer - now available here however:

http://www.f-16.net/f-16_forum_download-id-17415.html (1.2Mb PDF)

[WhiteOvies]

MROL doesn't sound that different to the SRVL technique being developed for F-35B.

V-22 could well be a feasible solution to some issues predicted for the F-35/QEC combination, but unfortunately I can't see the UK ever buying them. Our best bet will be to ask some friendly US Marines to join us.

Thanks Coff, haven't seen the X-wing phot before, certainly a better photoshop effort than the C-17 and B-52 pics!

[SpazSinbad]

If MROL is like an SRVL is that a bad thing? There may be other oddbods on non cat/arrest flat decks - especially in Oz - with this news about OV-10 Bronco testing at Pax River (not for Oz but will give impetus to that idea perhaps of having them on our new LHDs).

The Baynet | Print Page | The Bronco Returns to Pax River

But anyhoo from the earlier mentioned PDF here are some V-22 performance parameters in a graphic....

From BOING!:
http://www.boeing.com/ospreynews/201..._guidebook.pdf (3.7Mb)

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l2...D.gif:original

[Not_a_boffin]

V22 has a breadth (rotors turning) of over 25m. Add landing scatter of at least three metres per side and you get a minimum safe landing width of over 30m.

Accommodating that operationally on an LHD (flightdeck wdith 33m or so, less the 8m width of the island) is going to be "interesting". Yes, you can overhang the port side, but that may well incur differential lift issues. Either way there are going to be no parking signs all over the Ouija Board - not smart for an aircraft carrying ship.

QE is a slightly different kettle of fish with double the flightdeck beam, but it's still a huge swathe of real estate to surrender. Any concerns about brake failures with F35 and SRVL are going to be dwarfed by those where you've got two 11m rotors, spinning at several hundred rpm coming down the deck at you. Very definitely not for the faint-hearted.....

[SpazSinbad]

Some V-22 ORD

Some stuff about issues for V-22 on LHAs here: (S-2E/G Trackers had a right wingtip to island clearance of 6-9 feet aboard HMAS Melbourne, depending on measurement criteria [nosewheel on or on right hand side of centreline]). S-2s were notorious for being lined up correctly but catching a no.1 wire - perhaps an apocryphal story - according to A4G LSOs. A4Gs had issues with other criteria [when hook to ramp clearance was 6 feet rather than minimum USN 6.5 feet for their A-4s - you pays your money and takes your chances].

www.g2mil.com/TRAAC_Shipboard_OPS.pdf (0.5Mb)

Example page:
V-22 Shipboard Ops | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

SAME Pic Thumbnail Click:

Many good graphics and explanations in the V-22 MROL test PDF.

[Heathrow Harry]

ahhhhhh HMAS Melbourne - did more damage as a ram than as an aircraft carrier IIRC

[Mk 1]

Indeed - sadly 2 nil