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Old 19th Dec 2012, 13:24   #1 (permalink)
 
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MEDALS AND CLASPS

BBC News - Arctic convoys: PM announces medals for veterans

At last a clasp in recognition for the Bomber Command crews sacrifice.

Also men of the arctic convoys are to be awarded a medal.


Aaron.
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Old 19th Dec 2012, 13:46   #2 (permalink)
 
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An Arctic Convoy lapel badge was instigated in 2006. I have seen these adapted for wear on the Atlantic Star ribbon. It's not sure whether this announcement refers to a clasp or a new medal - I suspect the former, similarly the proposed Bomber Command award.

Good luck to these guys, but I am confused at Sir John's remarks that Bomber Command had been treated inconsistently with those who served in Fighter Command. Other than the very limited number who received the 'Battle of Britain' clasp, Fighter Command received no special award either. The trouble is, once you start straying from the original idea of theatre stars and honour specific formations there's no end to it.
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Old 19th Dec 2012, 16:42   #3 (permalink)
 
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finish up like the USAF and other Ruritanean forces...............

Don't the Israeli's just have a single medal for bravery?
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Old 19th Dec 2012, 17:59   #4 (permalink)
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Issued at bar mitzvah?
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Old 19th Dec 2012, 18:01   #5 (permalink)
 
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A colleague of mine went to a Black Tie dinner last week and noted a retired Major in his late 60s wearing the Queen Elizabeth II Diamond Jubilee miniature medal. When he asked him how he had been awarded it he said it was acceptable to buy it and wear it as he had served during the Queens reign. Is this correct?
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Old 19th Dec 2012, 18:08   #6 (permalink)
 
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No, in short. Doesn't stop 'em buying it though. My Dad is the same - feels that as he "served for 37 years, man and boy", he deserved both the QGJM and QDJM - despite not being eligible for either.

Probably because as an ex-Pongo with just 3 (earned) gongs, he can't bear it that his commissioned Crab son has 9.
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Old 19th Dec 2012, 18:25   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spit the Dog View Post
A colleague of mine went to a Black Tie dinner last week and noted a retired Major in his late 60s wearing the Queen Elizabeth II Diamond Jubilee miniature medal. When he asked him how he had been awarded it he said it was acceptable to buy it and wear it as he had served during the Queens reign. Is this correct?
The answer might have been "maybe".

With the change in age retirement it would be possible for an officer to be an RO beyond the age of 65; I retired at 67.

OTOH as ROs paid by the CS rather than the military we were not awarded the GJM but the rules might have changed.
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Old 19th Dec 2012, 18:26   #8 (permalink)
 
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Didn't think so....
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Old 19th Dec 2012, 18:27   #9 (permalink)
 
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This gentleman retired many years ago as I know his wife.
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Old 19th Dec 2012, 18:59   #10 (permalink)
 
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1. Spit, not entitled.
2. Roger, 9? Nig.
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Old 19th Dec 2012, 20:10   #11 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
finish up like the USAF and other Ruritanean forces...............

Don't the Israeli's just have a single medal for bravery?
No, the IDF have few medals and ribbons, but we are talking here about a campaign award (clasp/rosette?) not a valour decoration.

I would have thought there are better arguments against awarding a medal so long after the event, but I don't believe there were many Ruritanians on Arctic convoys.

Last edited by baffman; 19th Dec 2012 at 20:12.
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Old 19th Dec 2012, 20:36   #12 (permalink)
 
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TTN:
Quote:
...I am confused at Sir John's remarks that Bomber Command had been treated inconsistently with those who served in Fighter Command. Other than the very limited number who received the 'Battle of Britain' clasp, Fighter Command received no special award either. The trouble is, once you start straying from the original idea of theatre stars and honour specific formations there's no end to it.
Absolutely agree. Harris's call for a Bomber Command Medal was always a non-starter. What wasn't a non-starter in my view was a call for a Bombing Campaign Star, for a Campaign that lasted from the beginning to the end of the European War, as did the Battle of the Atlantic, for which there was a Star. That it wasn't issued after the War was plain PC in my opinion, now that enemies became allies and vice versa.
I too am confused about what is now to happen, are the Arctic Convoyers to get a separate Star now? Are the surviving Bomber Boys to get a clasp (presumably to their France Germany or Aircrew Europe Star)? If that is the case it would seem strange that a Campaign, awful though it was, that cost 3000 lives gets a medal, while another awful one that cost 55,500 lives just gets a clasp.
Even so I suspect that the next retrospective act of this PM will be to apologise for the Bombing Campaign. That then should tidy up all the loose ends, shouldn't it?
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Old 20th Dec 2012, 00:12   #13 (permalink)
 
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Wouldn't worry about it Chug, Bomber Commands sacrifices are it's own epitaph; everyone knows what they did and how many were lost. The dead don't need medals, they just need remembering, and I'm sure we all do that. I have an aunt who used to drive the crews out to their Halifaxes at Burn, it's still like it was yesterday to her and she's still haunted by the boys who didn't come back.
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Old 20th Dec 2012, 02:50   #14 (permalink)
 
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Thing

Don't tell your aunt but 578Sqn are having their annual wreath laying at Burn Village in May 2013.
431Sqn RCAF had their's in October, current Sqn CO and her Sqn Cheif WO attended the memorial unveiling and march past by local air cadets.
CO kindly took the salute too.
Village Council have asked the cadets to parade again for 578Sqn.
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Old 20th Dec 2012, 07:36   #15 (permalink)
 
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Good morning,

A quick question on numbers of ribbons per row on No 1 Service Dress:

A colleague, like myself and serving in a very remote location, recently had his medals and ribbons mounted by a Regtl Tailor, as part of a job lot of QDJMs. He's got 8 medals (not unusual this day and age) and the ribbons were mounted in two complete rows. At a recent event in his No 1s, he was taken aside by a visiting Wg Cdr and told off 'they should be in rows of 1, 3, 4.' Is this so?

I had a similar experience a few years ago when military tailors at Aldershot (the wonderfully-named Glover and Ryder) mounted my (then) 5 ribbons in a 2+3 configuration. This was wrong, apparently.
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Old 20th Dec 2012, 09:13   #16 (permalink)
 
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From an RAF perspective the Wg Cdr was wrong!

AP 1358 Chap 8 Parae 0829;

Positioning of Breast Ribbons........A row is to consist of not more than four ribbons. When more than four ribbons are worn, they are to be made up to display as many complete rows of four as possible with any incomplete row at the top........

http://www.raf.mod.uk/rafcms/mediafi...18430AAA8A.pdf

Can't speak for the Army or Navy of course.

Daf

Edited to get rid of a load of blah that can be read, by those who so wish/are bored, by following the link.

Last edited by Daf Hucker; 20th Dec 2012 at 09:16.
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Old 20th Dec 2012, 09:20   #17 (permalink)
 
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Army rules are as follows....... The first row should be central for the first and subsequent ribbons until the breast pocket width is complete. In the case of some individuals, this may be up to five ribbons. Once the first row is complete, each subsequent row should start on the extreme left as worn until complete and so on. Medal ribbons should not be obscured by the lapel. In simple terms, the collection should resemble a right angled triangle and not a pyramid.

Last edited by Sloppy Link; 20th Dec 2012 at 09:23.
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Old 20th Dec 2012, 09:42   #18 (permalink)
 
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As someone who reckons to know a bit about medals my own ribbons on my old number one are correctly mounted as per regulations - ie in a neat row of one

Re Spit the Dog's major, of course he wasn't entitled to wear the QDJM, miniature or full size, although there's nothing to stop him buying one as a souvenir. That said I used to do a steady trade in restrikes/copies which were bought by ex-service types who felt they had missed out in the medal stakes. I strongly suspect a lot of them got an airing on Remembrance Sunday, etc, and of course some of the guys turned into the sort of Walt that we've discussed on here at various times.
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Old 20th Dec 2012, 11:19   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spit the Dog View Post
This gentleman retired many years ago as I know his wife.
Would you care to elaborate?



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Old 20th Dec 2012, 13:28   #20 (permalink)
 
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Rather not....she is the Mayor !
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