QRA, Battle Flight, RAF Gutersloh and RAF Wildenrath and More
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: NY
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
QRA, Battle Flight, RAF Gutersloh and RAF Wildenrath and More
I am an aviation writer trying to find stories from the era when the RAF operated Battle Flight from RAF Wildenrath.
It is an era which fascinates me, a period when this section in Germany was a virtual air combat arena where RAF F-4 Phantoms performed DACT with F-104's, Harriers, Jaguars, Phantoms from the USAFE and the Lutwaffe, in addition to providing QRA. I am also interested in the earlier years when RAF Lightnings did the same training and QRA roles.
I would love to hear first hand stories about this period from any individuals involved in this period. - I am interested in setting up a separate website where photographs and stories can be exchanged. If a sufficient number of stories can be obtained, I would like to write an entire book, containing many first-person narratives, from this historic period. Thanks very much!
It is an era which fascinates me, a period when this section in Germany was a virtual air combat arena where RAF F-4 Phantoms performed DACT with F-104's, Harriers, Jaguars, Phantoms from the USAFE and the Lutwaffe, in addition to providing QRA. I am also interested in the earlier years when RAF Lightnings did the same training and QRA roles.
I would love to hear first hand stories about this period from any individuals involved in this period. - I am interested in setting up a separate website where photographs and stories can be exchanged. If a sufficient number of stories can be obtained, I would like to write an entire book, containing many first-person narratives, from this historic period. Thanks very much!
I was the Junior Engineering Officer on one of the Phantom squadrons at Wildenrath soon after it formed in and was therefore responsible for the efficiency of arrangements on the ground to support the high readiness state held by Battle Flight. If you are interested in the groundcrew aspects at all, feel free to PM me with your contact details.
Although more capable aircraft have come along since, the Phantom FGR2 was a great aircraft in its time and, and with very well-rehearsed aircrew and groundcrew, was routinely airborne quicker than can be managed today with "fly-by-wire" jets.
Little things like careful positioning of aircrew helmets, life saving jackets and document bags all helped trim several seconds off here and there.
Compare this (92 Sqn in 1989) - in almost "real-time" with only one significant groundcrew action omitted from the filming:
with this (recreation of USAF F-15 Zulu Alert launch from Bitburg in 1992)
Oh dear - I know which team gets my vote for highly co-ordinated aircrew / groundcrew actions and getting the most out of the kit they have been provided with !
Good luck with your project !
Although more capable aircraft have come along since, the Phantom FGR2 was a great aircraft in its time and, and with very well-rehearsed aircrew and groundcrew, was routinely airborne quicker than can be managed today with "fly-by-wire" jets.
Little things like careful positioning of aircrew helmets, life saving jackets and document bags all helped trim several seconds off here and there.
Compare this (92 Sqn in 1989) - in almost "real-time" with only one significant groundcrew action omitted from the filming:
with this (recreation of USAF F-15 Zulu Alert launch from Bitburg in 1992)
Oh dear - I know which team gets my vote for highly co-ordinated aircrew / groundcrew actions and getting the most out of the kit they have been provided with !
Good luck with your project !
Last edited by RAFEngO74to09; 12th Feb 2012 at 01:10.
Newt,
Here is the Miliitary Aircraft Accident Summary relating to the non-Battle Flight shooting down of a Jaguar on 25 May 82.
In addition to the aircrew aspects, contributing factors were reliance on pulling a circuit breaker in the rear cockpit as an electrical isolation safety device and the likelihood that, having been pulled and reset so often, contact was made even after the circuit breaker appeared pulled. Also, the groundcrew ran out of bodge tape to secure the Master Arm Switch in the Safe position - and someone else's "ship was spoilt for a ha'porth of tar" !
http://www.mod.uk/NR/rdonlyres/E2670...63_25may82.pdf
A bit of banter from the time: 92 Sqn - RAF squadron with the highest number of kills in WWII (317) and since !
Here is the Miliitary Aircraft Accident Summary relating to the non-Battle Flight shooting down of a Jaguar on 25 May 82.
In addition to the aircrew aspects, contributing factors were reliance on pulling a circuit breaker in the rear cockpit as an electrical isolation safety device and the likelihood that, having been pulled and reset so often, contact was made even after the circuit breaker appeared pulled. Also, the groundcrew ran out of bodge tape to secure the Master Arm Switch in the Safe position - and someone else's "ship was spoilt for a ha'porth of tar" !
http://www.mod.uk/NR/rdonlyres/E2670...63_25may82.pdf
A bit of banter from the time: 92 Sqn - RAF squadron with the highest number of kills in WWII (317) and since !
Last edited by RAFEngO74to09; 12th Feb 2012 at 19:54.
In my opinion, that the crew of XV422 took the fall for a series of command failures. It could, actually, have been much worse for them than it turned out. Despite any reservations anyone may have about the events of 25 May 1982, they were both fine aircrew caught up in a bloody awful mess.
(EDIT) Sorry, can't resist an addition. A kill's a kill.
(EDIT) Sorry, can't resist an addition. A kill's a kill.
Last edited by Courtney Mil; 12th Feb 2012 at 19:15. Reason: Diplomatic addition.
Mach Two,
Yes, there is and was QRA(I) in the UK but not held continually at the same high readiness state 24/7/365 as was required for RAF Wildenrath Battle Flight and USAF Zulu Alert. This added a whole new dimension in terms of the degree of preparations, choreography and rehearsals required to ensure that take-off times were achieved from "cold" (without pre-warning).
Just a bit of banter - of course everyone did (and still is doing) their bit regardless of location, but the crews in RAFG didn't have time for a quick trip to the "facilities".
Yes, there is and was QRA(I) in the UK but not held continually at the same high readiness state 24/7/365 as was required for RAF Wildenrath Battle Flight and USAF Zulu Alert. This added a whole new dimension in terms of the degree of preparations, choreography and rehearsals required to ensure that take-off times were achieved from "cold" (without pre-warning).
Just a bit of banter - of course everyone did (and still is doing) their bit regardless of location, but the crews in RAFG didn't have time for a quick trip to the "facilities".
USAF Zulu Alert - Hahn AFB - F-4E
Here's another clip - interesting use of cartidge start to save waiting to run up a ground air start trolley and engines running before the back doors of the alert barn have opened - I wonder if they had any hot gas recirculation problems with the engines.
Neither did Southern or Northern Q in the UK, RAFEng074to09. I acknowledge the difference between RS5 and RS10. Don't denigrate the operation.
Good video there. I don't recall engine start ever being the limfac on Q F4 Q scrambles.
Good video there. I don't recall engine start ever being the limfac on Q F4 Q scrambles.
Last edited by Courtney Mil; 12th Feb 2012 at 20:49.
USAF Zulu Alert - Bitburg AFB - F-15
Another video of a USAF F-15 Zulu Alert launch - this time from a documentary in the early 1980s - much more businesslike than the earlier post from 1992.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: NY
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
QRA Stories
Thanks for all the great videos and stories.
I would not limit the QRA stories to RAF Germany - I would also love to hear stories about the UK Northern and Southern QRA.
Please PM me if you wish to get more details about the project.
I would not limit the QRA stories to RAF Germany - I would also love to hear stories about the UK Northern and Southern QRA.
Please PM me if you wish to get more details about the project.
Phinal Phantom Battle Flight Launch - Oct 91
Clearly a staged event, but nevertheless some nostalgic views of the Battle Flight accommodation and surrounding area. Also, I thought some might like a reminder of the stunning blue aircraft paint schemes from the final display season or might recognise themselves or others they know.
Last Phantom Battle Flight at RAF Wildenrath#
What a great base RAF Wildenrath was - such a shame to see the condition it is in now.
Last Phantom Battle Flight at RAF Wildenrath#
What a great base RAF Wildenrath was - such a shame to see the condition it is in now.
Join Date: Aug 2010
Age: 91
Posts: 144
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Battle Flight
3 years of Battle Flight and about 3 months of my life sat in a concrete box !!- Funny stories well having done Battle Flight at Wrath and Gut i did get airborne in my PJs once - Hooter went at 4 am fast asleep so lept in the cockpit- Boots were already in and strapped in and went - seems a bit silly now!- Also the hooter once went at Gut so we lept in started up could hear the scramble message but got airborne only to find it was just a door check!- What else did i cock up on !! Not me but one back seater came off battle flight put his flying suit in the washer and managed to destroy a page of secret codes - not a clever idea- I'll save the Battle Flight Terrapin story for later !!!
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: northumberland
Age: 67
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
splash one jag
Hi
I always thought the above shoot down was a result of tired crews coming off battle flight and flying without the master arm being taped down safe, resulting in one tired F4 crew, I wont say who getting into position behind the Jag and loosing off one sidewinder with inevitable result.
Oh well!! Thankfully everyone came out OK.
Spook
I always thought the above shoot down was a result of tired crews coming off battle flight and flying without the master arm being taped down safe, resulting in one tired F4 crew, I wont say who getting into position behind the Jag and loosing off one sidewinder with inevitable result.
Oh well!! Thankfully everyone came out OK.
Spook